A little frustrated

[RusBear]

But I do not like when your whole game is reduced to the rnd and lucky or not. it’s a wrong. And tactical combat system and increase the level of mercenaries should be built around the player’s actions – if the player correctly and thoughtfully develop their mercenary, selects backgrounds for correct role, build class and Even weapons – he should benefit from this and not rely at all times on the dice for luck. that’s all.

[Danubian]

I dont understand what is this obsession about making the game hard?

If you think that taking +3 on melee every level is not balanced, then dont take melee on every level. Nobody is forcing you to.

Sorry but i dont like this randomness, all it does is artificially preventing me from customizing my bros the way i want to perform roles i need them to perform.

For example.

I have a melee fighter who is supposed to be a nimble fighter. But i cant make him become that because the game decided to prevent me from scoring more than +1 on melee defense for like 7 or 8 levels. This is just stupid.

[nomad]

Lvlups were static in the version before the update and people complained that it was too boring.
They bring back variable lvlups, now it’s too random :P.

Honestly I don’t see too much of a differece. Some guys are slightly worse, some are sligthly better than before. Lvl 11 brother in end game gear is pretty unkillable anyway, even if you get +1 to mdef on every lvlup.

In my game all my guys that are lvl 10 from poor to mid tier backgrounds have around 70 melee atk (70, 69, 65, 74, 74, 65, 69). Considering avg guy from these backgrounds starts with above 50 melee skill, it’s a little bit below guaranteed 2 we had before. But I skipped melee skill on some levels when I rolled 1, thinking it gets rerolled on another level up. However, it seems that all rolls are created on recruitment and you need to pick a skill if you want to progress through the rolls. So if I lvled correctly at lvl 11 it would more or less average to 2 per lvlup.

Are you guys actually picking the skills you want to level? Or if you see 1 you pick another skill? Because it seems that 1 won’t go away until you pick it.

[PsenBattle]

nomad wrote:

Lvlups were static in the version before the update and people complained that it was too boring.
They bring back variable lvlups, now it’s too random :P.

This is the dilemma. So at the end of the day we just have to go with what we think fits the game best. We also dont think the impact of the rolls is so heavy, that some players may get completely screwed.

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[RusBear]

honestly I do not see the dilemma here :)
there is a choice – make a simple system (statistical or random) or do complex. The fact that the players recently have forgotten how to think, to read, consider and plan – it is a problem of players. Just If the developers of the beautiful game will be able to give us a complex and interesting system of raising the level of the mercenaries and groups as a whole – we are very grateful.

[Danubian]

PsenBattle wrote:

nomad wrote:

Lvlups were static in the version before the update and people complained that it was too boring.
They bring back variable lvlups, now it’s too random :P.

This is the dilemma. So at the end of the day we just have to go with what we think fits the game best. We also dont think the impact of the rolls is so heavy, that some players may get completely screwed.

There is a simple solution. Make the game modable. I could spend hundreds of hours playing this game, i will certain spend couple of minutes tweaking it to my liking.

[PsenBattle]

Danubian wrote:

There is a simple solution. Make the game modable

Modding is on our whishlist and I am pretty confident that it will be okay-ish moddabble even though we most certainly will not be able to provide a lot of tools for it.
We’ll see.

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[mrbunnyban]

…or since you’ve already programmed in both styles, make it an option which players can choose.

[Igniferroque]

Just registered so I could add my voice to the frustration with the randomness of skill increases. Melee skill is so much more important than the others, it is a problem. It is especially problematic since there appears to be a bias against leveling melee. I regularly see opportunities to add 4 to other skills but have never had a single chance to improve melee by 4.

[nomad]

Igniferroque wrote:

Just registered so I could add my voice to the frustration with the randomness of skill increases. Melee skill is so much more important than the others, it is a problem. It is especially problematic since there appears to be a bias against leveling melee. I regularly see opportunities to add 4 to other skills but have never had a single chance to improve melee by 4.

That is because melee skill can’t raise by 4.
The range for melee increase is 1-3. Same for melee def (and range def also I think? I never level it so I’m not sure).
The range for all other skills is 2-4.
I assume it’s made this way to make other skills more attractive to level, since melee atk and melee def due to nature of the game are more valuable than others by default.
Ranged def could probably be bumped to 2-4 as well if it isn’t already, since it is not very attractive to level as is.

[kingslomein]

I don’t have any problems with the current system. Sometimes I get 1’s yes, and it can suck. But this is why it’s important to find brothers with high starting stats. It’s one of the things you work towards the entire game. Once you have a full 12/12 squad, and they are actually surviving! Then you start picking the weak ones who don’t fit your “build” and replace them and build up one or 2 at a time until you have a carefully chosen team. It’s realistic, every character is different, just like it would be in real life.

Also the strategy I use at the moment is; assigning all the points, cancel, do it again, pick the highest 3, or sometimes just suffer the +1 Melee attack.

[PsenBattle]

nomad wrote:

The range for melee increase is 1-3. Same for melee def

Thats right, all stats have their own increase ranges.
We are working on a permanent solution for the whole issue and are pretty confident it will be dealt with in one of the next smaller updates.

Cheers!

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[bengarrett1971]

I also share JayneCobb88’s frustration with the new “save-scumm-proofed” randomised stats, although it’s not so bad that I’ve stopped enjoying the game (after 147 hours play so far). My (admittedly subjective) view is that I’ve also being seeing lots of +1s.

All three stat level-up mechanics tried so far have their pros and cons. The trouble with the original random system, and the new “save-scumm-proofed” one, is that the development of my brothers is chosen partly by me (by the stats I choose) and partly by the RNG; at the moment it feels like my choice has low impact, and the RNG is too dominant.

I’d like to have more control over how my brothers develop, but I still want to agonise over which stats to choose, and have to worry that specialising too much in one stat will mean dangerous weaknesses in others.

A system that might work would be to have fixed upgrades, but instead of being fixed per stat, have it fixed by the order you choose your 3 upgrades: perhaps +4 for the first chosen attribute, +3 for the second and +2 for the third (or maybe +3, +2, +1; or +4, +2, +1…whatever balances). This would allow more specialised builds (but retains the necessary conflict that specialising in one area requires sacrifices in other areas).

[mrbunnyban]

PsenBattle wrote:

nomad wrote:

The range for melee increase is 1-3. Same for melee def

Thats right, all stats have their own increase ranges.
We are working on a permanent solution for the whole issue and are pretty confident it will be dealt with in one of the next smaller updates.
Cheers!

Won’t make it an option for players to choose huh? Okay then, here’s a way to do to make it more tolerable: skew the probability towards median values. This makes the probability of what scores you get feel more natural to players since its a little closer to the classic bell curve rather than a straight line.

So for the melee attack skill, which has a range of 1-3, make the probability of getting a 2 as high as 50%, with only a 25% chance of getting either a 1 or a 3. For the other stats with a range of 1-4, make the probability of getting a 2 or 3 maybe 35% each, and the probability of getting a 1 or 4 as low as 15%.

IMO, randomised permament stat gains per level work better when there are more levels (say 100 levels. So Over 100 levels the stat gains will even out) or when there is less variance in between the gains (so instead of +1 to +4 which is as much as 300% difference, a better stat gain range of possible values would be +10 to +14 which is only a 40% difference).

[kingslomein]

Another possible solution, whenever a brother level’s up, 3 numbers are randomly chosen. These you can allocate as you see fit, with a few exceptions. Maybe only 1 or 2 fours’s possible to be rolled at once. Also maybe the 4 would be highlighted in red, or some color to indicate it can’t be spent on Melee attack/def.

This would allow the player to spend the high rolls how they see fit, according to their build.

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