Defense Skill Tree Discussion

[Holy.Death]

A few points: First, the HP gain you will obtain through Colossus is very marginal, and HPs are not all that useful anyways in terms of survivial in this game.

The amount you get depends on amount you have, so if you don’t level up HP per level and don’t have a character with good traits, then yes – increase will be marginal.

Second, more importantly, I simply do not understand why you would use a 2 hander on a unit not dedicated to DPS. No, I do not mean “offense is best defense.” I mean a non DPS character using a 2 hander will neither DPS well nor be survivable. It simply doesn’t make sense. Without Perfect Focus, you won’t swing a 2 hander more than once anyways in most cases. Even with Battle Flow, the swings won’t increase that much. And with Perfect Focus, you have no room to get into the Defense tree, because you need at least one Fatigue mitigating tier 2 Utility Perk. So explain to me what build are you trying to describe?

I don’t take Perfect Focus, because my two-handers would still be limited by their fatigue and restrict other uses (like shield splitting, for example). So I mainly pursue traits that help their fatigue, with survivability and damage being a bonus. It takes less points to do so. While they might not be DPS I don’t intend them to fill that role. They are my heavy hitters, shield crushers and tanks rolled into one. It works great, because I also have second line of billhooks and archers who fire from behind that safe line.

[Invictus73]

Holy.Death wrote:

The amount you get depends on amount you have, so if you don’t level up HP per level and don’t have a character with good traits, then yes – increase will be marginal.

I thought there was a consensus that there is no room to level HP at level up, since Fatigue, Melee/Range Skill, Resolve (if Captain) and Melee Defense are more important?

Regardless, even if you start out with HP bonus Background like Hedge Knight, level HP at every level, AND get Colossus, you still won’t end up much more than like sixty more HPs. That’s one extra hit, if you are lucky. It just doesn’t seem so cost effective.

Holy.Death wrote:

I don’t take Perfect Focus, because my two-handers would still be limited by their fatigue and restrict other uses (like shield splitting, for example). So I mainly pursue traits that help their fatigue, with survivability and damage being a bonus. It takes less points to do so. While they might not be DPS I don’t intend them to fill that role. They are my heavy hitters, shield crushers and tanks rolled into one. It works great, because I also have second line of billhooks and archers who fire from behind that safe line.

So instead of separating melees into DPSers and tanks like most, you roll them into one hybrid or universalist function? Hmmm. This sounds a bit like Steel Cohort, if you don’t have any ranged specialists. Can I know what Background and Perks you take?

Also, what does the rest of your team look like?

[ManaSeed]

>> Also, what does the rest of Holy Death’s team look like?

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[Holy.Death]

I thought there was a consensus that there is no room to level HP at level up, since Fatigue, Melee/Range Skill, Resolve (if Captain) and Melee Defense are more important?

It depends on one’s playstyle I suppose, but then again I am not a powergamer, so I might be self-impairing myself here.

Regardless, even if you start out with HP bonus Background like Hedge Knight, level HP at every level, AND get Colossus, you still won’t end up much more than like sixty more HPs. That’s one extra hit, if you are lucky. It just doesn’t seem so cost effective.

Maybe not, but I’ve found that’s what my brothers need as they depend on health and armor when enemies hit them.

So instead of separating melees into DPSers and tanks like most, you roll them into one hybrid or universalist function? Hmmm. This sounds a bit like Steel Cohort, if you don’t have any ranged specialists. Can I know what Background and Perks you take?

I do have ranged specialists, but my ranged specialists can always boost the second row if needed (although most of the time they keep firing at the enemy) and my actual second row (composed of billhooks) also wear heavy armor to not get killed by orcs tearing up the battle line and to be able to stop enemies if need be.

So instead of separating melees into DPSers and tanks like most, you roll them into one hybrid or universalist function? Hmmm. This sounds a bit like Steel Cohort, if you don’t have any ranged specialists. Can I know what Background and Perks you take?

I don’t care about backgrounds that much, although I aim at taking the best people I can. I usually go with people who give me bonus to fatigue, because I don’t have to level it up later if I feel I have enough.

Perks:

Quick Hands
Bags and Belts
Pathfinder

Brawny
Weaponmaster
Footwork

Colossus
Battle Forged

Sundering Strikes
Crusher

I am missing a few good perks in the offense skill tree, but that’s because I have to take 2 useless – for this build – traits just to reach Brawny, which is vital to me and since I am already there I take Footwork in case I have to pull my brother back. Weaponmaster reduces the fatigue cost needed to Crush shields. Sundering Strikes work well in tandem with big axes and Colossus combined with Battle Forged increases health pool.

Also, what does the rest of your team look like?

4 archers, 2 billhooks, 6 melee brothers.

[Invictus73]

Holy.Death wrote:

It depends on one’s playstyle I suppose, but then again I am not a powergamer, so I might be self-impairing myself here.

If you psychologically prefer higher HPs over Melee Defense, Nimble, or other stuff as a survival tool, that’s fine. Just pointing out things from my perspective and trying to see if you have a more solid gameplay basis for your choices. After all, I could be wrong, as I am a newb.

Holy.Death wrote:

Maybe not, but I’ve found that’s what my brothers need as they depend on health and armor when enemies hit them.

A counerpoint from my experience: I’ve never had my heavy armor guys die or even remotely come close to dying since day 1 without using Colossus; in fact, no one’s come close to dying except ranged DPS who got gangbanged or raw recruits who had no base stats or Perks. But I think this has to do with my overall team set up and tactics and not just what my heavy tanks wear or select in terms of Perks.

Holy.Death wrote:

Perks:

Quick Hands
Bags and Belts
Pathfinder

Brawny
Weaponmaster
Footwork

Colossus
Battle Forged

Sundering Strikes
Crusher

Seems like a rare mix of Offense/Defense tree build that most people stay away from. From a pure efficiency point, I see this build neither doing all that well in terms of tanking or doing damage, but the game is currently easy enough to go through in virtually any configuration. But I may try this on one toon before I knock it! ;)

[ManaSeed]

Holy.Death wrote:

Perks:
Quick Hands
Bags and Belts
Pathfinder
Brawny
Weaponmaster
Footwork
Colossus
Battle Forged
Sundering Strikes
Crusher

I think most people do not skip tier three perks because they look cool. “Have a taste of my FINAL weapon!” “This is not even my FINAL form!” that sort of stuff. The Holy team has no tier three perks, but has three tier two perks, and SEVEN tier one perks from THREE branches.

After staring at this perk list, an image appears in my mind. It’s a click-click-win team. It has attack buff, defend buff, stamina buff, weapon durability buff, speed buff sooo….. what are we waiting for? (❛ᴗ❛)

Let’s go! (〃⌒∇⌒) We don’t need to worry about enemy’s warhammer because we have hp. If things go wrong, we can still fall back with footwork.

Aside from the partial joke, I kinda wonder how this setup utilizes its full potential.

[Holy.Death]

[…] but the game is currently easy enough to go through in virtually any configuration.

It would be weird if game required a specific set perks in order to beat it, because otherwise it’d suggest that some perks/builds are not viable and thus are not balanced enough to justify their presence in game (as they won’t be used).

I think most people do not skip tier three perks because they look cool. “Have a taste of my FINAL weapon!” “This is not even my FINAL form!” that sort of stuff.

I feel people are kind of forced to commit a lion’s share of their perks into a specific tree, because of a heavy investment it requires.

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