arcweldx

[arcweldx]

Rap wrote:

Very interesting discussion going on in here. This is our stance: We will not add a saving feature to combat because a) it does not fit our design goals, and b) it would cost us a lot of time which we’d rather invest into more important things, and things which we want to have in the game in the first place. Adding a loading feature from combat, on the other hand, is something we’ll eventually do simply for convenience.

Hi Rap,

Thanks for weighing in and letting us know the official word. The idea that something as innocuous as limited/unlimited save games can generate this much controversy is absolutely fascinating :)

You don’t have the resources to do it? Ok, gotcha. Part of a design philosophy? This isn’t a twitch action video game, it’s a nice meaty turn-based strategy/RPG game in the tradition of X-COM, XCOM, Silent Storm…or more broadly, HOMM, AOW, CIV. None of those games needed limited saves to “enhance” the experience. They just had strong game play. If you want a recent example of how limited save games annoy the hell out of people, take a look at Shadowrun. They ended up implementing unlimited saves in the end.

[arcweldx]

Kalanar wrote:

You know what I’ve been doing lately? Playing a little Battle Brothers before I have to get ready for work. But if I’m about to get into a battle, and I know I don’t have 20mins (likely about the max amount of time a battle takes me)… I save and quit. Then later, I come back, when I have 20 mins, and fight the battle. If something comes up in the middle of the battle, that’s okay too, because the tactical combat is enjoyable enough to me, that having to fight the battle again isn’t so bad, after all, it’s only 20mins.

And why are we so quick to accuse a game indie developer of not respecting your time? That’s a little dramatic. I would hate to see how you behave in a line at Starbucks. It’s 20mins – you’re either exaggerating how little time you have (how long did take you to write your post? How many times did you save an come back?) or you are grossly overvaluing your time.

I don’t even care if there is a save option, but I certainly don’t think it is absolutely necessary or disrespectful if it isn’t included. That’s just silly.

If you think 20 min -or 10 min, or 5 min- of my time isn’t worth bothering about, then no, you DON’T have much respect for my time. Never mind the annoyance of playing through something I’ve already done. If you want to wait in line at Starbuck’s, that’s your choice. I wouldn’t do it. And I would never buy a game with limited saves, either, if I knew about it beforehand.

Seriously, what motivates the Save-Police? Would you like to lobby against pause buttons on DVD players so we have to suffer through a 3 hour movie without getting up for a pee, so we get the “intended artistic experience?” Maybe program by e-book reader so it only stops at the end of the chapter, meaning I have to set aside half an hour with guaranteed no interruptions, so I get the experience Tolstoy intended? There’s going to be an Ironman mode. Use it, and let the rest of us play exactly when we want to.

[arcweldx]

Jago wrote:

No, it won’t be implemented. At the moment the game creates an autosave before every battle, so you can reload and try the battle again. But this might be only for the EA version (because of bugs) and not the final release.

I hope this isn’t the official stance of the devs, and if it is, I seriously hope they rethink something that misguided.

Some of us don’t have unlimited time on our hands and nothing else to do in the world. If the family needs attention, or I need to go to work, or something else important comes up in life, or *I just want to stop playing,” or the game crashes, or my PC crashes, and I’m 20-minutes into a battle, then I’ve wasted 20 minutes of my time. That’s tedious and annoying, and also pretty disrespectful of what my time is worth.

If some people are so weak they can’t help but constantly hit the reload button, give them a “no saves” option! For the rest of us, please don’t waste our time. This isn’t my job, it’s a game: I should decide when to play and when to stop and not be punished for it.

[arcweldx]

Let me start by saying I like the random selection, it’s the way I personally would choose to play. But I would argue for more customization, because I can see where those people are coming from. What made me back this game EA is that the devs really seem to “get” that a fair degree of customization and potential for role-playing is what made games like X-Com so loved. For a lot of people, it’s not just a tactical combat game, it’s about building a story with a set of characters. Things as simple as being able to choose your banner, name your mercs, etc., all contribute to that role-playing experience.

So what are the arguments against starting character customization?

1. Too difficult or time-consuming to implement.

I can respect that. You need priorities. But I think there are some easy compromises that shouldn’t be hard to do (below).

2. Choice over starting characters would make the game easier.

There are already different difficulty settings, and nobody (sane) has a problem with that. Choosing an easier starting group is just another way of choosing an easier difficulty level. So no, not everyone would choose to do that, for the same reason not everyone plays every game on the easiest difficulty. But if someone wants to play the game on “easy” mode, why should anyone care?

3. Devs have a vision of how the game should be played.

Again, I respect that, but keep a sense of what people will actually enjoy. If it doesn’t significantly affect the quality of game play (noting my point about difficulty above), why not let them play the game how they want to play the game? As someone noted, we all know that some people are going to restart until they get a starting group that they like. Why not make this easier with a “restart” button at the beginning screen. Or better yet, start by displaying the backgrounds of your starting mercs, with a restart button on the screen so people can “re-roll” to their hearts content. If that would increase the enjoyment of a significant minority, why not?

I hope modding does get implemented. It would make this game an absolute classic.

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