Invictus73

[Invictus73]

A radical change in my team:

The new update makes Swordmasters useless, so I’ve dismissed them.

Going with 4 Sellswords ranged DPS, 2 Hedge Knight melee DPS, 4 Hedge Knight tanks, and 2 Adventurous Noble captains now.

[Invictus73]

Hmmm, Fearless and Drunkard Adventurous Noble. 72 Resolve.

Do I have to take him and level him now?!

But I already got two over 100 Resolve…

[Invictus73]

Sigh, I added another DPS Hedge Knight. “Strong” and “Iron Lungs,” with very high Fatigue and Melee Skill. I couldn’t refuse.

[Invictus73]

I forgot to mention:

Now I am running with 3 level 11 melee DPS (soon to be 4) till I find 3 Quick Hedge Knights for the “workhorse” tank role. And the reduction in inidividual melee DPSers damage numbers are very noticeable, especially if 2 of them are bunched near each other. So melee DPS body count has a very low ceiling, I think.

[Invictus73]

Mana,

Thanks for your detailed explanation. Now I perfectly understand your classification! :)

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

I did not run a word count on your wall of text. But at first glance I approximately guess it has about 736 words. Can your screenshot tell me that much information?

Given your propensity to post screenshots with glee, I somehow thought you were more a picture guy than a “talk” guy!

ManaSeed wrote:

You mean Coat of Scales (245 durability)? Strange. I thought you were wearing Lamellar Harness (210 durability). How you come you’re wearing heavier armor when you have understood more about offense’s pleasure?

Scale armor is 180 durability.

ManaSeed wrote:

There are multiple factors that stop ranged weapon to outshine melee weapons, in terms of DAMAGE:…

2) melee weapons have higher damage/ammo(usability), I’ve explained this in another recent thread(your thread)

This is the only item in your list I’d contest.

ManaSeed wrote:

Like how?

Like Jaffai’s Gunnar scum saved till he gets at least 4 Fatigue and 4 Melee Skill at every level up? ;)

ManaSeed wrote:

Either way, there are several factors you can consider.

1) Brothers can’t stand on same tile so one captain will definitely be standing further than other captains. So in most situations, a brother can only enjoy benefit from 2 or less captain.

2) You can enjoy more benefit from more captains if you decided to wait for enemy (by sticking close) or use more ranged attacks.

3) Do you have that much max fatigue to enjoy full benefits from 3 captains? If your brothers have battle flow, you might not need that many captains, this also depends on how hard/fast you decided to march/advance your troops.

4) when being surrounded at start of battle(especially in jungle where not all enemies are revealed), and you’re not patient to wait for enemy to come, you will spread your team in all directions to search for enemy. If you have only 1 captain, he can only choose 1 direction to support his buddy.

I got rid of the 3rd captain after all. I found that 1) in a forest battle, 2) where there are legions of opponents, an extra musclehead is worth more than than an extra brain (or voice), since the melees cannot move quickly enough to intercept everything due to all the obstructed terrain.

[Invictus73]

Holy.Death wrote:

Were all greataxes used by the same person? I only broke my weapons when combat was exceptionally long and against enemies who had a plenty of armor, but even then such cases were very rare. I also tend to use archers with crossbows and spread damage with all characters, so that might be why I don’t experience weapon degeneration as strongly as you do.

Yes, but my melee DPS guys are swinging ten or more times per turn quite often though.

[Invictus73]

Final addendum (for now):

I am also beginning to wonder if a 3 captain group is not superior to a 2 captain version for an extreme DPS set up. The reason is that with 2 captains, you still have a chance to have your perimeter units go outside of the Rally coverage, whereas this is far less likely with 3. I just stumbled on this as I started training my 2nd “Fearless” captain to replace his predecessor who is merely “Brave.”

[Invictus73]

A few more comments on how to achieve extreme DPS:

In addition to extremely fine tuned DPS characters who form a tiny minority in your team (since too many means damage has to be shared):

I think it can only be done against Orcs, and only if you fight great numbers of them. To begin with, only melees can achieve such crazy numbers, as melees achieve a far higher damage rate per Fatigue (more than double, I think, assuming targets are available). And Orcs are great for melees, because they come straight at you in really predictable tactics. Further, you need to fight a lot of them, probably at least 20, because you need as many hexes filled by enemy bodies to kill, as you don’t want to lose those precious APs or Fatigue on walking to your target.

[Invictus73]

Addendum: I just noticed that two handers oddly have lower durability than one handers; can this change? That would help a great deal. As is, I don’t think greatswords would be even usable for well built Perfect Focus characters, as the durability is significantly lower than even the greataxe.

[Invictus73]

Ok, 5500 in 4 rounds in an Orc lair with 30 plus targets. This time broke three greataxes, and was down to billhooks.

I am not trying to artificially set up the fight for my melee guy to do max damage; this is just how it works out. For comparison, my ranged guy did 1900.

[Invictus73]

Specifically, I found this classification confusing:

ManaSeed wrote:

You might already knew this. There are more or less 4 types of DPS builds:
1) pure DPS build ==> deal highest DPS against dummy target
2) highest DPS build ==> deal highest DPS per round
3) optimal DPS build (aka optimal build) ==> deal DPS where offense and defense has achieved perfect balance
4) stats maxout DPS build ==> deal DPS where all stats spent yield greatest value (diminishing return on stats is minimized to the least)

Among other confusing points, #1 and #2 seem the same? Normally, I would think a “pure DPS” build is the “highest DPS” build. I also don’t understand precisely what #4 meant.

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

In case you didn’t know this, F5 is quick save, F9 is quick load.

Ah, I didn’t. Thanks!

ManaSeed wrote:

Anyway, how do you farm exp? I try and unveil orc lairs(with green text) without destroying them, so orc units will keep spawning. This is my most efficient method to farm exp, though I still find the exp rate low. Not sure how long, maybe 3~6 hours for me to raise lv1s to lv11s.

I need money; so I simply wait repeatedly hand in the “raze x” quests. But I prefer Orc ones over the others, as they are the quickest kills, since they come straight at you and don’t get too cute.

ManaSeed wrote:

If you want to convey your information to me, I don’t need the screenshot because it can’t talk. I need you. (well, screenshot should be handy in a different scenario such as team analysis but not in our case)

You are confusing me again! :(

ManaSeed wrote:

Let me guess what happened before you tell me the answer. High damage per round dealt by a single brother probably has to fulfill two or three conditions:
1) the brother steps forward alone while other brothers are at rear, so he attracts all the enemies
2) there are a lot of enemies, but with moderate toughness which can be kill in about 2 hits. That’s why the brother can keep moving down enemies with his Perfect Berserk Flow. If enemies are all orc warriors, there’s probably no way he can keep his stamina running.
3) you might have Rally brothers for stamina regen, this might or might not be necessary depends on situation.

Okay, your turn. Let’s see how much I’ve guessed correctly. Try to be detailed as possible. Because I want to find out if it’s something I’ve never learned or discovered. If yes it is probably something extremely useful. Though I suspect it’s something I know. It might be the similar situation when I trained my recruits with only a few DPS brothers. But I have never achieved such high numbers with single DPS brother nor I let a single DPS brother done all the work before. So I can’t be sure at all.

#1 was not really the case, but #2 and 3 were indeed so.

The details, as far as I recall:

The set up, to begin with, was unusual. There were only two DPS guys who could functionally DPS at this time, instead of my usual four: One melee and one ranged. This is because one melee was out of commission, since I had stripped him to compare his raw stats with a new recruit, and I forgot to put his equipment back on. (So I am carrying three melee DPS guys until I can find those damn Quick Hedge Knights.) The other ranged was too low level after being recently recruited. In all total, there were in fact six relatively new recruits, so most of them either advanced and Shieldwalled, or stayed back and shot x bows. To give you a good idea of damage output, except these two DPS guys, no one else did over 300! (The ranged guy did 2100, so not bad, though still only half of the melee guy.)

Enemy wise, it was in an Orc lair, with exponentially more Orcs than usual (31, I think), since the roving bands combined with the base defenders. Most of the rovers must have been younglings or berserkers who died in one or two hits, since there were more of them than usual in an Orc base.

So this is how it proceeded: The ranged guy opened with a nice barrage (at least 10 shots in the first round, though less than my record of 13, albeit resuscitated by the two captains, as you shall see) took a few front row berserkers and younglings down. Crossbows then partially damaged some more. Four or five melees then advanced, but all of them either Shieldwalled after contact or swung once and then Shieldwalled, since most of them were recent recruits and didn’t have the Melee Defense to protect themselves adequately without a Shieldwall. Then my melee DPS Perfect Focusued and went on a truly outrageous one or two shot streaks (mostly one shot) with his greataxe. After the two Captains blew their load(s), my ranged and melee DPS went off again, so it was a devastating carnage. Most of the kills were in the first two rounds.

I think the unusual situation in this fight was two: First, bcause there were 31 Orcs, there was a boatload of (soft) targets even for melees, so not much time was wasted walking around. Second, because I had so few DPS guys functional, essentially two people had to kill those 31.

ManaSeed wrote:

Good. You’re doing better than what I’ve expected. At this rate, you’re going to get naked soon ( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ

Sorry, scale is the least clothing I am prepared to wear! ;)

[Invictus73]

By the way, being able to swing a two hander five times (with “Strong” Trait characters) v. four times make a HUGE difference. You are not only getting the extra one swing, but that swing potentially leads to another.

I don’t think I can live without “Strong” Background DPS characters any longer.

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

How did you find out about that? Is there any website or link for players to post their battle results?

No, Battle Brothers is not World of Warcraft! ;)

But I have seen a few screenshots and people talking rough numbers; and I am not seeing people doing my numbers. But again, it’s not WoW; and the sample size is tiny weeny! ;)

ManaSeed wrote:

You might already knew this. There are more or less 4 types of DPS builds:
1) pure DPS build ==> deal highest DPS against dummy target
2) highest DPS build ==> deal highest DPS per round
3) optimal DPS build (aka optimal build) ==> deal DPS where offense and defense has achieved perfect balance
4) stats maxout DPS build ==> deal DPS where all stats spent yield greatest value (diminishing return on stats is minimized to the least)

*note:
Unless personal preference, one should not choose (1) over (2) if he knows how to construct (2).
Similarly, one should not choose (4) if he can find out how to construct (3).

Since some of your brothers have 90 Melee Skill & Defense and you’re aiming to deal highest efficient damage, you’re probably assembling something between (4) and (2).

>>
Mana: Amateur-friendly build
Invictus: I think it works for both amateur and advanced players.
Not sure if the term “amateur-friendly” sounds misleading to you.

The deadliest weapon might be deadly for different reasons:
1) deadly effect
2) it is deadly despite who uses it, even a chubby baby

On the other hand, not all builds meant for advanced players are extremely strong. It might simply mean the build is highly personalized or customized that’s why it is meant for advanced players.

You are usually cogent and easy to follow, this kinda flew by me :(

ManaSeed wrote:

(゜д゜??) I don’t understand what you’re saying, at all.

Still, I went and googled the following keywords, which have no relevant results:
　　　Gaiz gay
　　　Gaiz urban dictionary
　　　Gaiz gay insult
　　　Gaiz gay relationship

I first seen the term “gaiz” on a forum. It was used by a young girl. Because there were both male and female members participated in the discussion, I found the term “gaiz” sounded more friendly than “guys”. It became my preferred term for “Ladies and Gentlemen”. So far no one has mentioned anything before.

( ・◇・)？Is there some kind of new non-mainstream culture which changed the meaning of “gaiz”?

Hmmm, perhaps I totally jumped the gun? I’ve never actually seen the word “gaiz,” and I automatically assumed it was an idiosyncratic spelling of “gays.” If not, I apologize. Sometimes I presume too much… :(

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