[Beta patch] You changed something about ranged weapons havent you?

[Danubian]

It could be confirmation bias, but i fear its not.

Its as if youve changed something about hit chances when there are obstacles.

For example before when i got my people to 60+ ranged skill, not only would crossbows hit anything at range like 3/4 times, i could also shoot at enemies who are 2 hexes from me.

So imagine you have a front line made of melees and you have a back line made of crossbows.

Before when the enemies made contact with your meless front line, you could continue shooting from back line, and hit people with crossbows.

Now this basically seems impossible. If i have 60% hit chance at an enemy who is 5 tiles away, ill get like 10-20% hit rate once they connect with my melees.

But to make things even worse, something like 3 out 4 times when i shoot at enemies who are in contact with my first line, i will actually end up hitting my own guys from behind.

Before this would only happen extremely rarely, like when you had terrible ranged skill. I used to be able to reliably use ranged weapons to aid my front line fighting enemies directly ahead of them.

This change sucks balls.

It essentially makes a dedicated ranged weapon character useless. You will only be able to fire at enemies until they close the distance, which takes no more than 2 turns. After they do, you have to maneuver behind them, and even then you will hit your people more often than enemies.

I dont like this one bit.

[OldGreyBeard]

Check out the perks. There’s a real nifty one that about doubles the “thread the needle” hit chances. I’m getting 60+% hits, and about half of the “oopsies!” shots hit the brother’s shield now.

Nope, ranged are not worthless, just need to be more carefully groomed for the part. I’m doing quite well w/ my 4 crossbowmen.

In a single player game, there's no such thing as cheating. It's merely "creative manipulation of the default settings"!

[RusBear]

No, there is not the perks and how they have changed and there’s the fact that your “shooters” out of 6 gex to “miss” gets it in the back of team friend. this is not the perks – this is probably the new mechanics… I had guessed?

[Bananenbaum]

Learn to move your archers/crossbows?

[OldGreyBeard]

RusBear wrote:

No, there is not the perks and how they have changed and there’s the fact that your “shooters” out of 6 gex to “miss” gets it in the back of team friend. this is not the perks – this is probably the new mechanics… I had guessed?

Well, re-balance was part of the update, so I expected a decrease in the punch of ranged weapons.

I’ve noticed that beginner ranged brothers are worse. Once I got the perk for reducing the effect of obstacles, my hit percentage jumped immensely, along with a marked decrease in “friendly fire”. I’ve been a “crossbow scummer” for a while, now. While I never did any studies of hit percentages, overall I haven’t noticed any huge difference once I get guys a little experienced. It’s not as nice as the “one-shot-drops-all” crossbowmen I had before the update, but they’re not bad.

In a single player game, there's no such thing as cheating. It's merely "creative manipulation of the default settings"!

[Danubian]

OldGreyBeard wrote:

RusBear wrote:

No, there is not the perks and how they have changed and there’s the fact that your “shooters” out of 6 gex to “miss” gets it in the back of team friend. this is not the perks – this is probably the new mechanics… I had guessed?

Well, re-balance was part of the update, so I expected a decrease in the punch of ranged weapons.

I’ve noticed that beginner ranged brothers are worse. Once I got the perk for reducing the effect of obstacles, my hit percentage jumped immensely, along with a marked decrease in “friendly fire”. I’ve been a “crossbow scummer” for a while, now. While I never did any studies of hit percentages, overall I haven’t noticed any huge difference once I get guys a little experienced. It’s not as nice as the “one-shot-drops-all” crossbowmen I had before the update, but they’re not bad.

I have a level 7 party with 2-4 crossbowmen (depending on situation) and 2 archers – all of whom are 60+ ranged now. And i have noticed a drop in hit rates at distance (before a 60+ ranged brother would hit vast majority of times at distance). But worst of all even when there are no other obstacles, but your brothers between you and your target, the game now seems to basically hit your bro’s backs waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more often than enemies. Which makes your crossbowmen effectively only usable first 2 rounds of the battle, as when the enemies make contact with your brothers, youll be hitting their backs more than enemies.

Now someone said “learn to move”.

Lets move the ranged characters, and waste damage per round, to get to a different position, only to still shoot at enemies who are locked in melee combat, and still hit your brothers like all the time. So no, thats not a viable thing.

Once all enemies have made contact with your bros, the usuability of ranged weapons drop to almost zero, and you might as well simply switch to a 2 tiles 2 handed support weapon.

So if you have a “dedicated” ranged brother, that is in practical sense, a waste of a character as you will be forced to switch to secondary.

This is a problem as this wasnt the case before.

[Wargasm]

I’ve been having a slightly different problem. As soon as I gave my crossbowman the Bull’s Eye perk and started shooting at enemies obscured in melee (reassured by the hit chance still above 50%), almost every attempt seemed to miss the target and hit an ally instead (half the time with a crippling injury to boot) …

[OldGreyBeard]

@ Danubian:

Ah! I don’t have anybody near level 7, yet. I only have one 60+. He seems pretty deadly, though. However … I’ve just started seeing bandit raiders, so things will start to get much harder. IF I can get BB to run after that last Steam update. :-(

In a single player game, there's no such thing as cheating. It's merely "creative manipulation of the default settings"!

[RusBear]

topic in steam about this
http://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/359547436745968243/
so i was rigth, it is not “bias”, or mass bias simple )

[Danubian]

This is not a good thing, and i suspect more people will be extremely unhappy with it when they play some more and realize whats going on.

Ranged weapons are crucial for my strategy for example, and im really feeling the lack of their usability right now :(

[Hypnoticborrat]

Danubian wrote:

This is not a good thing, and i suspect more people will be extremely unhappy with it when they play some more and realize whats going on.

Ranged weapons are crucial for my strategy for example, and im really feeling the lack of their usability right now

I really rely on my ranged guys. I usually have a front line of 8 people and a back line of 4. Those 4 are armed with crossbows / longbows and have a pike as a secondary weapon (or a longaxe, I actually like those). I am used to moving around my rangies so I have no obstacle marker and thus better hitchances, but still if I do I hit my own guys 3 out of 4 times, it’s so annoying. Before the update I hit my own guys in maybe 1 out of 10 shots.

I didn’t pick the bulls eye perk because with my playstyle obstacles shouldn’t be a problem. And considering what the guys before me stated the perk doesn’t change the friendly fire stuff, so it seems to me that archery is just flat out broken.

[Wargasm]

It seems like a high hit chance against a particular tile, using a ranged weapon, will now have an equally good chance of hitting any tile obscuring the target tile (even if that tile is occupied by an ally in a shieldwall), and that no warning will be given about this and that it is not reflected in the hit chance that’s displayed …

[Danubian]

This never used to happen before.

The two battle brothers with warbows just killed a melee fighter standing in the hex mouse cursor is showing.

They both hit the guy in a row, he had 130 body armor, 80 head armor and ~60 hp.

They both have ~60 ranged skill, and they both had ~60% hit chance on that enemy, but instead they both hit their ally.

[RusBear]

sorry my paint ) but i am at work- no screen shot here.
1. It is sad , little stupid but ok- it can be, ok
2. but THIS is more looks like bad joke

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[Wargasm]

If that’s how ranged attacks will work (or not work) now, the Bull’s Eye perk would seem to be almost useless, since all it seems to do is mislead you into taking hazardous risks.

[Author]

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