The Short Trait

[Tobias Is Queen]

One thing that struck me as odd was that the Short trait (Tiny? I forget exactly what it’s called) gave a damage penalty to all weapons. I feel like maybe it should just give the penalty to melee weapons. Basically, it just seems weird that a small guy would deal less damage with a crossbow. What do you guys think?

[ManaSeed]

A taller man might have more strength to draw the bow than a significantly shorter man, provided the latter is not especially muscular. Well, I can’t see how height would affect power of crossbow. Also, I don’t think taller man can reload the crossbow slightly faster, because reloading crossbow involves movement of entire body, so a minor difference in strength might not be an issue. In addition, you need to bend to reload the crossbow, I think it is easier for short people to reload the crossbow, they should have slightly better posture and balance.

Ahem, back to the topic. Yes I think the trait should only affect melee weapons.

[GOD]

I’m guessing less power to draw the string, with longer arms and more muscles relative to the shorter one. Drawing the crossbow also takes strength, but it would mostly affect loading speed rather than the power of the shot as you can draw the string into postion a bit faster. It would depend though on what kind of crossbow you’re dealing with, so it’s not that clear cut. I’m guessing the damage decreasing is meant as an abstraction that can be applied to ranged weapons in general as more get introduced, rather than having to be adjusted for each weapon.

/

The bending forward comes with having to anchor the crossbow on the ground while you draw back the string (with the manual crossbow, at least). That’s where the power comes into play, which you exert more of if you’re taller. Not sure what you mean by shorter people having better posture and balance? That’s more related to the build of your body, rather than your actual size.

[ManaSeed]

>> That’s where the power comes into play, which you exert more of if you’re taller. Not sure what you mean by shorter people having better posture and balance?
I’ve never compared a tall and short person reloading a crossbow before (neither have I tried reloading a crossbow before), so this is pure imaginary result from what I’ve experienced in using relatively shorter/smaller tools.

Imagine a very tall person bending down just to reload a relatively short/tiny crossbow. Provided he’s not more agile or having better sense of balance than most people, he would take longer time because he has to bend more than other people. He will also take slightly more time to balance his stance/posture when reloading.

Let’s assume this person has average height. Looking at the angle he bent his waist, I think it easier for him to exert more force if he’s slightly shorter.

[GOD]

I’m pretty tall and I’ve never experienced or seen others experience difficulties like that. You just use your waist and exert a lot more power that way. Balancing and posture are only an issue when you’re still in your growth spurt and not used to your new height yet.

The picture is kind of small, but seems to me like he’s not using his hips properly for leverage. It goes a lot faster and you have to bend less when you do it that way. A shorter person can’t do that as well and depending on how short they are (the trait to me implies very short) they would end up exerting significantly less force, because of being unable to pull the string as if lifting it and therefore having to rely on their arm strength.

[ManaSeed]

>> I’m pretty tall and I’ve never experienced or seen others experience difficulties like that. You just use your waist and exert a lot more power that way. Balancing and posture are only an issue when you’re still in your growth spurt and not used to your new height yet.

Not sure if it’s just me. When I bent about 90 degrees (that’s what most people do when reloading crossbow), I feel like I can’t exert full force to pull something like crossbow string because I spend some strength on controlling my balance (center of mass) as I lean forward a lot. I think I can reload crossbow(pull string) faster if I sit on chair, rather than bending down like that to reload it, then stand up again. I can probably exert full force at max speed if I sit on a chair. So if a person can bend less to reload crossbow, he can use more force at faster speed due to less clumsiness and have more appropriate distance for his arms(and waist) to exert force.

Still, everything I said is imaginary or not solid because I’ve never reload a crossbow (I’m just imagining what would happen if I pull something like that size with that posture). Not to mention about the subjectively or habit for different people. Also, I have no idea how short is a “short” brother.

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But that’s all chit chat. Now let’s talk about some important stuff.

>> The picture is kind of small, but seems to me like he’s not using his hips properly for leverage.

I….

I dunno how to say this, man.

I-think…. Errr… maybe you shouldn’t stare so hard at other’s hips. It’s really scary, especially when you’re pretty tall.

[GOD]

That’s probably because you’re focusing on your upper body and aren’t properly using your lower body, so you’re missing out on the power your of legs and hips. That’s also where your balance comes from. You can stretch your arms a bit better when sitting on a chair, but you’re still not really using your lower body and ignoring all the force it can generate. That’s correctable, though, with plenty of exercise.

[Tobias Is Queen]

Thanks for your responses GOD and ManaSeed!

Yeah, the damage penalty makes sense with all the weapons that use strength… which is everything except crossbows, I guess haha! I can see why they didn’t make that one weapon the only exception to this trait. That said, I feel like ranged weapons rely as much on accuracy as they do on raw power to inflict wounds. Sure, a Tiny character might not have as strong a pull on a bow (or throwing arm with a javelin), but how much damage he deals basically comes down to whether he hits them in the foot or in the eye.

Anyways, just in terms of game mechanics I would like to the Tiny trait become less terrible. -15% damage is a pretty severe penalty in a game where all you do is fight. When I have the misfortune to get a Tiny brother he becomes a meatshield for my more useful guys (sorry little buddy!). I feel like Tiny guys could still make good archers or crossbow men though. That’s why I’d like to see the trait get a buff for ranged damage, even if realistically two out of the three ranged weapons make use of a character’s strength.

As far as size effecting a crossbow’s reload speed goes… that’s an interesting idea, but with only one trait that effects size (right? I’ve never seen a Huge trait yet) I wonder if that is really worth their time implementing. Seems like a lot of work for something that only effects characters with a specific trait when they use a specific weapon, you know?

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