Topic: Feedback 6.0.15

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  • #13561
    Avatar photoSarissofoi

    Two weeks already passed after World map patch was released. Most of painful bugs and other stuff was fast fixed. Thank you Overhype.
    Art is great, and map looks amazing.
    Sadly there are few other things that I must report. I mostly base my experience on Deadly difficulty with semi ironman so take it with a grain of salt.

    Compared to Goblin Patch version contract system is a big step backward. Current system is clunky and hide valid information from the player. That makes taking contracts a high risk especially for a non veteran player.
    Goblin patch contract system:
    -Multiple contracts in one location
    -contracts generation was affected by global map(find exist location, destroy exist location, destroy enemy camp, kill wolf pack)
    -amount of coins in reward let player asset the enemy forces(high reward=high risk)
    World map patch:
    -one contract per location(plus one faction contract)
    -can’t asses risk by reward(contracts for dangerous enemy have often laughable rewards)
    -level scaling(seriously that is terrible choice for open world sandbox)
    -spawning locations and enemy parties for a contract – zero connection with global map(one of the biggest issue – I often see game spawn enemy camp nearby some other enemy camp – why game not offer contracts for existing locations?)
    -flavour text with minimal indication of enemy strength(I get that some Contracts have twists but still its bad for strategic game to have blind choices)

    How it could look:

    <Flavour text.>

    Hear me you mercenary scum./ My good sir, we have troubles./ We call your infamous band for help against greater evil. / We call you, noble soldiers to save us from evil. (based on local or faction rep with Renown twist)

    Bandits steal our cattle./ Beasts slaughter our livestock. / Undead assault people at night.(based on enemy and enemy activity)

    They hide in XXXX. / They have a base in XXXX. / They roam the forest east from here. (location of enemy)

    We offer 1000 coins as a reward if you deal with them./ We offer 500 coins and our gratitude(Local rep +X). /We can’t pay you good lord but if you help us you would be always welcome here(Local rep +X, Renown +X) (based on reward offered)

    <Scout report>
    My scouts / Hunters / Rumours tell
    that enemy have 2 dozens of men/ that there are at last dozen beast lurking / (type and total number of enemy)
    Some people /My scouts notice / I heard
    A)that there are at
    last half dozen orcish Warriors / at last dozen of Raiders with them
    (specific mention of stronger enemy types if they are of higher Tier but minority)
    B)they are all
    well armed and armoured bandits / ride a wolves / big and armoured in iron Orcs
    (when higher tier enemy are in majority)

    They are lead by XXXX (when have a leader or boss unit)

    And then haggling could start.

    Also having multiple contracts to choose and Tooltip that easily and fast show types of contract and information is essential.
    “Armed Delivery’
    to XXX
    XXX coin reward
    “Destroy camp XXX”
    XXXX reward
    2 dozen enemies(XXX and XXX)
    Boss XXX

    The information could be not exactly correct with some swings but mostly correct(so dozen could mean 9 to 15 enemies).
    It would greatly help player to make actual decisions. Also multiple contracts to choose. And no level scaling.

    Contracts should be generated(for best immersion and game mechanic) based on existing global map situation.
    Destroy location -enemy location nearby settlements
    Destroy camp -enemy raiding parties from specific camp attack settlements or trade caravans/other units
    head Hunt/patrol -enemy raiding parties or wandering enemies raid caravans or settlement
    delivery/escort -caravans lost

    Some settlements could spawn some locations nearby like criminal Hideout, Smuggler camp(cities), Poacher camp, Ghoul den, Wolf lair.
    Some faction could be fleshed out. Like actually Ghouls and Werewolves having their own mini camps and lairs and spawn spawn through map.
    Main enemy factions could build few types of enemy camps. Starting with capital one(stronghold), small as scouting bases, normal for securing area(current camps) and supply to generate more resources. Each with their own typical strength. So supply or scouting camps would be weak to average when main camps could be strong and capital one extremely well defended(but with possibility to starve them if other camps get destroyed).
    Fleshed out main factions are essential for a good mechanics in this game.

    There could be divide between core human settlements – pretty safe with mostly easy contracts and bordering towns that are in contact with enemy factions and their main forces. It would make low level players gravitate to border so they can fight more advanced enemies. It would be much better choice than simply level scaling.

    Haggling and reputation gains.
    Currently is rather easy to boost reputation. The player lead mercenary band not a band of heroic adventurers. The pay player get is not a reward for a quest but a pay for a contract.
    Current haggling system and reputation gains are not connected and are very simple.
    Haggling is just simple demand for more money(as all option increase total contract worth) at risk that contract will be declined(demand two times is safe). It could be connected to the reputation gains and standardised.
    Say contract is worth XXXX coins(all contracts offer pay after job is done – so player will not entrap himself if contract is to hard for him) and doing it will give +X Local reputation and +X Renown.(The all numbers should be visible to player so he could make a decision it also allow to existence of some low paid contracts that are risky but offer great Renown or/and reputation increase).
    Player can demand 2 times increase of pay by 25% at cost of lowering local reputation gains by 100%. Idea is that they need job done but if player push it and demand more than usual they still pay but will resent him for it.
    Player can demand 2 times 20% pay upfront. Simple like that. Risk is that if failed player would be marked as fraud.
    There should be also option to resign from reward for increased Reputation or/and Renown gain.

    Local Reputation gain as decline should be slower overall as it could be frozen at some threshold after reaching high(or low enough) amount. So if you piss somebody hard enough, they will always distrust you but if you help somebody long enough they will not forget that either.

    Nice feature but barely used. They could sell actual location on global map and uncover enemy camps or hideouts for a price.

    Ghouls – they are hardly any challenge. Hardly. Main problem is not their stats but their fixation on corpses. really this must to be toned down. On one hand is kinda neat, as they feel like totally dumb and cowardly animals. But they have minimal combat strenght as they barely fight at all. Sure they should eat corpses and try to get to them(when reasonably close) but overall they should more attack and less moving around.

    Zombies – cannon fooder. Slow fight as they come with big numbers. Low threat. They really need some sort of captains that boost them(are the Dukes around? that was cool unit).

    Skeletons – fragile. Necromancers need boost(maybe make his reanimate skill cost only 4AP and have bigger range?). Also give him bigger number of soldiers. They could use some throwing weapons. It would fit them better(as bows are rather delicate).
    I know that rework is coming but still.

    Raiders – OK.

    Goblins are fine. Maybe their skirmisher should be divided into 2 categories: light armed skirmishers(nets, bolas, light armour, light weapons) and heavy armoured pikegoblins(pikes and heavy armour). Pikemen would pose more threat against heavy armoured enemies. They could also use some greater numbers overall.

    I notice that Raiders and Goblins sometimes switch weapons from throwing to melee and back, doing nothing – usually if my units are close(1-2 empty tile distance)
    Goblin Wolf after death of Rider attack instantly after his spawn.

    Orcs. Never change. Simple tactic. They could use more aggressive mindset – like attacking after charge(not shielding) or less trying to move around formation(berserker especially). They could use some medium Tier unit between Orc Young and Orc Warrior as Warriors are ultimate enemy.

    I notice that enemy is less passive now but I am not sure. I fight more numerous enemy right now and they all go offensive even when they have ranged superiority. Battles feels more smoothly now. Thanks.

    Levelling system is fine now. Not perfect but it works well.
    But perk tree could use some serious reworks.
    Student could be switched to Mentor – and grant 20% more exp to soldiers that have lower level than guy with this perk, experienced soldiers would make levelling noobs faster
    Weaponmaster could be switched to Offense tree as it now weakened by PF nerf. It feel more right as Bags and Belt perks offer possibility to carry more spares for free and Offence tree is one that normally have problems with fatigue and Durability issues.
    Push the Advantage could be made into mechanic – granting bonus chance to hit when attacking stunned enemy(but no chance to hit head)
    Berserk could grant AP refund on killing attack, as two handers could use some buffs right now.
    Company really need some Rally skill that actually Rally running or demoralized soldiers – kinda like Goblin Overseer skill but with resolve test? Now there is really no mechanism to prevent your soldiers from breaking. Battle can really snowball fast(also enemies could use the same skill)

    Events right now are extremely rare for me. At last it feel like that.

    Thanks for reading. Overall I have fun with this update although contract mechanism are real let down. Combat still fun, PF nerf was good thing. Noticed that some weapons get more durability and some other stuff(when we will get long axes, goblin pickaxe, and talismans? Also where I can get a heraldic Mail – the best looking armor in the game).
    Thanks for your hard work.

    Avatar photoMiaphysites

    You somehow think, that behind that wall of text and detailed information, I would be too intimidated to make a meaningful reply! WELL! Let me tell you, I think, some things staying in the black box make the game, some things in the black box make people make big posts like yours, I wasn’t thinking of it. You don’t like doing your own scouting? Apparently? The villages are military reconnaissance experts, 5.2 goblin raiders says Bob the Builder?
    I like that you just rewrote their Factions page, Raiders – OK . Skeletons – A little fragile (TO DO).
    Whats wrong with haggling, you made the effort to click it, didn’t you?
    Lets see I guess elder scrolls, final fantasy, and single player games level scale. To not level scale would be World of Warcraft? Man I wish I had a party that could explore the zone 2.
    Did anybody see their X-COM parody Tweet recently? 12 soldiers, that’s probably the away team on X-COM, I forget. That seems like the hinderance of Turn-Based combat, like X-COM, individual control above 12 starts to break down the system. Maybe Groups of hired-together mercenaries, or even pairing, unpairing mercenaries, that take their turns together? Seem like I’d seen that somewhere, REALLY old strategy games. ERM oh ya RISK! ha. I assume if goblins can ride around on simultaneous attacking wolves, we’re going to get horses! Hurray 3 cheers! Anybody?
    I was going to say 6.0.15 wasn’t even out and this is all a troll but you’re just really fast. I think.

    Avatar photoSky

    The student mentor thing seems to be a very good idea. Just needs to be placed further on the tier2.
    And I’d also like the inns to share at least more of the locations if not the exact places.
    A mid orc unit would fit in too.
    Ghouls are easier than the zombies. Undead should get a buff imo in every category cept the vamps.

    Avatar photoRusBear

    I think that the desire to do all the enemies more difficult – not strategically correct. Must be objectively weak enemies. Undead and so has advantages with infinite weariness, without penalties for moral, fines resistance with ranged weapons. Up ghouls, up nekromants, up zombies – all go to ensure that the vast majority of players in the company’s launch (and some of them all the time) to take the job and fight only with the bandits thugs.

    Avatar photoMiaphysites

    Good summary RusBear, am I the only one already Hoping to run into the bandits, the raiders? He’s saying make the monsters stronger? I die from undead, goblins Used to be a close call, Orcs for sure, I don’t even go near that. And don’t get any good human armors, I mean what is all that junk, I got the Hate the Monsters syndrome just fine, nice mechanic.

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