Topic: Lead Character suggestion

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  • #13514
    Avatar photoVortic1


    I bought Battle Brothers and played it for a while. It’s a great game and I’d like to help with a suggestion.
    The game starts with us being appointed the new leader of our mercenary company right in the middle of battle, that’s a real nice way to start the game.
    But it would be even better if we could create a character to represent ourselves (the player) in the battlefield, it would be more immersive that way.
    When you lead your men in the thick of the action things get more interesting, like that you are the type of commander who charges alongside with your men or stay behind the shieldwall in safety.
    Having a character representing the leader would help with role playing and add some more depth to the game. Since the character is virtually “you”, when he dies it’s game over.
    It would be nice to choose his appearance, traits, stats and background. He could have special bonuses since he is the leader.
    I would love to see that kind of choices in this game.
    Thank you all for your efforts :)

    Avatar photoSky

    So when your character dies the game ends right? The devs would need to give a free fire extinguisher with each copy of the game so players can cool down their burning asses every half an hour when a lucky shot enemy arrow one shots the leader or an overpowered group catches you and you have no chances.

    Avatar photoAlesch

    While I don’t think the player would benefit from having an in-battle presence (just think of how hard it is to keep your original three companions alive and multiply that by a game-over screen), I think that you could get something out of the idea. Basically, the player avatar could have a leveling screen of their own, allowing an experienced company to get some bonuses independent of the mercenaries themselves.

    Perhaps you could have skills that make you better at negotiating contract prices, or that make it harder for employers to learn about your double-dealings. Maybe a charismatic captain can attract skilled mercenaries to the company for less gold, or decrease the chance that a mercenary will desert when times get tough.

    I’m sure there are other things that the captain could do without being visible, and vulnerable, on the battlefield.

    Avatar photoVortic1

    Or maybe you can choose wether to participate or not in battle.
    If staying alive is too dificult, perhaps he could get only knocked out, albeit leaving a morale penalty to the entire party for that battle.
    It would be cool to have the option to have your own avatar.
    But then again, it could be an option to join the battle or not.
    As Alesch said, there could be management skills alongside combat and tactical skills.
    I’m sure it would improve the game, without changing it too much.

    Avatar photoVortic1

    Ok, I’ve just read the FAQ and seen that there is a question like this:
    awnser: no…
    So i’m sorry for even starting this topic…
    worthed a try tough…
    Still a great game…

    Avatar photoSky

    True, but there is no answer about having a non combatant character with party traits and other stuff. So don’t be sorry for starting discussions about your ideas.

    Avatar photoMiaphysites

    Hey your idea occurs to me! Actually, what occurs to me is a gamename change: Jagged Brothers’ Alliance of Unmounted & Bladed.Like desktop computers for mercenary and store purchases! Evil queen blighting the land. And uh, upgradable Camp Followers to Sword Sisters, wow she was just mixing the pot, now she’s got plate mail, maybe a bit of a rank jump mount and blade.

    Avatar photoVortic1

    Interesting thing… In jagged alliance you could create your own mercenary. You had that option in the game, and if he died, the game continued like it was no big deal. Having a role character for the leader shouldn’t influenciate gameplay. The choice of going on without him or loading the game and trying again should be of the player.

    How many people have not loaded a game because his favorite character died?
    Have you ever played jagged alliance and let your mercenaries just die needlessly? Most people reload and try again if they lost a skilled man. Because they care for them… And the penalties were also severe. Somehow we really grieved for them, since they had uniques personalities and emotions. The game developers put efforts in making them unique, and we also put efforts in evolving their skills and keeping them alive against all odds. That’s really beautiful in a game.

    Now, some people played mount&blade right. Have they ever loaded a game because one or two of their men died? Because they lost one skirmisher? It’s possible to make bloodbaths in the game and not care about it if only the player was still standing. Because the soldiers are generic and have no names or relations in the game, also the important companions couldn’t die… All decisions can be made mostly strategically since there is absolutely no risk of dying or loosing someone important… the only real risk is of getting captured and losing all your money, some time, and fame. “Now that is a real loss, isn’t it”… rest in peace generics…
    These games are good by themselves, i’m just comparing a specific part of them.

    That said, Battle Brothers bring it to a new level. Battles are hard, the chances of losing men are very high. But the real thing here is How they are going to die… Will they die as cannon fodder or as loved ones… Or will you change time itself to save them… Could a leader survive in the battlefield this way, could he be replaced by other brother if his time comes…

    If the leader do battle he could suffer permadeath, but could be replaced by other brother or sister… Or as thought of above, would he only be wounded, albeit giving a morale penalty for the battle AND reseting his combat skill to level 1 due to his injuries, but alive to fight again fresh from the start as another recruit. Sure one of this options won’t change the gameplay, only aesthetics and RPG elements. Or he can choose to stay away and watch if the odds are bad and keep only to tactics and administration depending on players preferences.

    Maybe the real change is in how we play, the choices we make. How we face death and how much we care for life. Can we believe so much in life as to not let our brothers die, can we let life go on without loading like a broken record when death show it’s hand… This game keeps me wondering… Maybe it’s not about having a leader, maybe it’s about making it through together… Share your thoughts

    Avatar photoSky

    For me not to have an avatar on the battlefield (even when you obviously can make any of brothers as such) is a fine way. It takes away a lot of frustration when he’s die. I’m not a fan of loading games and retrying battles only in few exceptional situations mostly to try some new moves and tactical decisions and the enemy is fit for that in numbers and equip. But even so the avatar could increase the loadings and repeating of same battles more time that would make the things go dull very fast. For me it would ruin the game imo.

    But I can see how the non combat avatar could be a very huge success with non combat skills or equipment. Where you could have additional perks for barter reputation better hirelings etc. That could be very nice, especially if it comes together with the non combat personal and reserve that the devs already wanted to implement. These perks could determine (controll) the speed how fast and how many NPC you can have even wall them behind perks. Same goes for the tactikal pre battle fromation, you could make a perk that could increase the area or even move it a bit perhaps change a bit the starting point so you have highgrounds more often. This I find could benefit the game, and would make an avatar, and bring more layers to management, more perks for non combat.

    About creating your own mercenary. Yes JA had that but the created ones never felt alive for me. There were no instances where I’d pick a created one instead a premade one with at least a bit of story or “personality”. Cuz let’s be honest there was not much of personalities, just a basic behavior patterns. They did not evolve or change. Fidel was always “leave me alone i’m busy” independent of the progress you made. In BB the sellswords personalities are only in backstory and the background everything else is made up by you, they don’t even speak to you in voice. Long time ago there were discussions about having the ability to construct your first three mates and eqip them with a limited char customization something like one of rimworld mod does. You can search it up if you interested in how it ended I honestly don’t remember.

    You can hardly connect this custom character creation in the world. But sure there is a barber so the visuals could be changed np. All is left the stats and backgrounds. To do that you’d need a scouting agency where you could buy or rather place a specific order for one or more stat-background setups and they’d scout them for you if such a candidate would appear anywhere in the world. Or even a training hall where they’d make the exact one you wanted for money and in some time (to train the candidate as you wish).

    That might work aswell. It wouldn’t be instanly recruiting and it would cost not only money (maybe a minimal renown requirement) but also time and by time I mean weeks. With the possibility for them to have not only the positive traits but also a chance or even deliberate balancing with negatives. And the stats instead of a fixed amout would be ranges. With all this these special breed warriors would be extra dear to players not only cuz of their attributes but as materializing wishes and it might end in endless reloadings and replayings when these guys die.

    A role character does change things both the immersion and your personal relation to the game. About the immortal leader unit. Now that I call BS. Your guys are immortal in the first battle. I can understand that it’s purpose is to show the basics of fighting still it already steps on the games spirit of hireling life expectancy. You simply can not have an immortal unit. Even if it resets and such. You are either the leader of the band and give orders or you are one of the many dead man walking and the ai plays the worldmap. Can’t be all.

    It will change the gameplay, it will literally add a free meatshield that can not be killed a constant unit that you can not lose. The worth of current brothers is so high cuz they can perish any moment independent of their lvl or gear. An unkillable unit would throw all away. About loadings you asked, I don’t load even when my most favorite characters die cuz that is also an irreplaceble part of the game when your hero chars die opening the road to success for all others. MB had immortal hero units, and that was a huge BS for me. In the end having a party of almost only named chars with high lvls was simply rolling castles in their way. There was even less need to load since you could personally go up and kill most of the enemies while just getting injured and have all others be immortal too. In JA well that is a bit different there were extra big gaps between characters. And non of them was immortal. Still it was quite hard to lose a good character since he’d had objectevly better everything than the enemy, if positioned well they had no match.

    This is what I think could work and wouldn’t. For me it is.

    Avatar photoMiaphysites

    Now look ,we know what they answer they will not do:
    “Will there be a leader character I can create myself that takes part in battle?

    ” -FAQ

    However, I am not against, maybe its important, because the art man deserves more money, a portrait selection for the man/woman behind the company! And a trait select for the company leader! Name ourselves, gives our Self a little substance? Like puny bean counter behind a desk with a bag of gold, with a thin mustache, +100 crowns on contracts. Every portrait he wants to do of anything, and, a small Company Trait.

    Avatar photoVortic1

    I see your point, Sky. I think I can see the big picture now.
    I would like to see how the non combat unit would help the band, the shield sisters, cooks, armorers, doctors, you name it… sure it will be interesting.
    Now I sure agree with you about an avatar with administration skills and perks, but that could unbalance the game as well if not kept in check too.
    The idea of having a leader representing ourselves is really to help immersion, not about having an immortal super soldier as a meatshield on the battlefield XD.

    Let’s Improve our ideas:

    1-There should be a leader, created by ourselves or promoted from shield brothers, this leader would help the band with a wider array of non combat perks/skills and new combat skill too if possible, his resolve would have more impact on the group than most in combat, high or low, so we should choose carefully if he is the promoted variety. The creation of another tab called “tactics” for leading and management perks with different xp for the leader is an idea;

    2-If created by ourselves and felled in battle he should lose ALL his “battle”+”tactical” experience and reset stats/perks due to his near death experience, and to be healed he should require the aid of a proper doctor in a town for a fee (or a wandering doctor from his band for more bandages than normal, if it’s added in the future). Which is kind of what happens in the beggining, so it would be a game wise move.

    After healed he would have the “near death experience” trait which would have a particular side effect and a few penalties plus temporarily suppresing all his traits, then in two days or more the trait is gone and the normal ones are restored (perhaps it could even random the restored traits, so the results would be unpredictable, no almost death would be the same). So no need to keep reloading, and no game over, but also no insane immortality either.

    This alone would prevent players from using him as a meatshield, they would think twice before doing so. The fact that he is reset balances the character, like a fresh recruit. And it is a lot more time saving than going from town to town to hire a desired merc, with the desired background to lead and then renaming him and taking him to the barber and then having him diyng in his first battle, and then repeating the process all over again…;

    3-Should he be promoted instead of created then he only will gain a new tab of “tactical” in character screen. if lost in battle then other battle brother can replace him;

    4-the leader should be able to choose to participate in battle or not;

    5-if he does participate he gains battle experience like other brothers, and “tactical” xp too,
    if not, he gains only “tactical” experience, which will improve his management and leadership skills/perks (sky suggested some really good ideas above)

    6-Getting your men killed will lose you some “tactical” xp, possibly losing perks if the outcome is too bad;

    7-The leader should still receives daily wages, even if he was created. This is to simulate the expenditure he needs to maintain himself daily and to also apply morale penalty if out of gold, the only difference is that he cannot desert;

    8-Let’s think some more possibilities and help the designers with more ideas. Perhaps if it’s not added in the game then it could be modded for it instead; :)

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