Saitorosan

[Saitorosan]

Nah they are fairly easy, but they can regular melee attack you and that can break your guys just the same if they land. Like Ivan Drago break, not just “hey guys I don’t know about this” break.

They’re really most dangerous against low level groups or players who don’t know what they do. Once you’re cruising past most other stuff they’re not scary.

[Saitorosan]

Bows or xbows? Keep in mind xbows do double the damage bows do to armor, and are much better for orcs in general, with the notable exception of berserkers. Reloading is annoying, but 2 AP to shoot gives you an extra movement to get away and hopefully cut them off so you can reload and fire again.

I don’t think you’ll ever get close to melee dps guys, but they serve a different role. Late game mass archers can tear up most enemy formations pretty effectively.

On another note, a pox on skeletons…

[Saitorosan]

No not needed at all. Lost souls are the type of enemy that will wreck you if you make a bad mistake though, and a fleeing swordmaster has a much better chance than a tanky guy, unless your tanky guys usually have high mdefense. Also, they can close on you and just flat out swing at you, it seems rare but it’s happened. Getting someone surrounded by lost souls is bad for business. As for fighting them nude, you always want to act before them if at all possible. I just don’t care enough to go through all the equipping for a slight beef against guys I don’t have a problem with.

I use hit and run, pick off as many as I can and use polearms to keep as much distance as possible. Don’t ever use 1 range weapons, too much can go wrong if you’re standing right next to one of these little punks.

[Saitorosan]

Folks, ranged guys are badass. Maybe not quite the damage output of melee guys but definitely deadly. I had a “skirmisher” party with medium armed melee guys that used javelins at first and a bunch of archers (5 and 7 respectively), while everyone fell back and softened the enemies up. Not much really got close to being dangerous to them. Just block any big baddies as best you can with your javelineers and pick everyone off with archers. Mix in xbows for armored and bows for light/no armor. I prefer xbows overall, but bows with focus are pretty stupid good against squishy enemies.

[Saitorosan]

Actually, you’d be better served using high dodge guys than typical tanks, even without FM, as lost souls do damage directly to HP regardless of armor. If you’re only fighting LS and have the chance to re equip, it’s actually best to go in naked for extra fatigue and initiative (pay no attention to my screenshots not showing this in action :P).

[Saitorosan]

Yea it’s pretty easy to use CE for crowns and exp to test with. Don’t know if the devs want us discussing it though, not everyone takes kindly to it. ;)

[Saitorosan]

And of course as soon as I post that I get this as a mission battle. :/

Edit: 49% to hit. Not even my best ranged guy.

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[Saitorosan]

Sure, if you wade into a mass of lost souls with low level guys you’re gonna get smashed. Just like if you don’t use the proper tactics for, say, orcs. It is annoying when your bros flee for like 3 turns and then you have to get them back into the battle, but it’s really not that bad. Just use the right tactics and they are basically slightly more annoying en masse than chasing down archers.

Minimum to hit them with ranged is not locked at 5 either, I’ve seen as good as 17% with a decent ranged guy and crossbow, no height advantage, 6 spaces out. I’m guessing with more specialization and better conditions that can go way up.

[Saitorosan]

I’ve definitely seen some odd hit chances myself. Bros with high but not over 100 melee with 95% to hit shield guys. I may have overlooked something when I noticed it though.

[Saitorosan]

Utility is my favorite tree. Offense/defense builds tend to be lackluster in my experience, I’d rather specialize in one and supplement with utility on almost everyone.

Tier 1 – Strong, but unvarying.

B&B and QH

This combo is so good I only make 1 or 2 guys at best who don’t go at least minor utility for this. Only dedicated 2-handers really. Everyone else has so much to gain from this combo and with utility you can pick your other perks to supplement whatever their role is. Not saying they are OP, but it feels almost automatic to me to have this on guys as early as feasible.

Taunt

Not sure this is really working. Even on high resolve guys, there are still shieldwalls going up, people still don’t attack the taunter if there’s a better target in range, and it just overall feels like it’s a do nothing ability. Sounds great on paper if it worked the way you’d think it does.

Student

Actually useless. The cost is far too high to warrant getting (not really)maxed a little quicker. Never, ever take this.

Shield Bash

I actually liked the idea of this, when I thought it worked with Fearsome. Light damage, positional control, constant morale checks and fatigue damage all in one. It doesn’t appear to though. Also, in the testing I’ve done, it appears that even with this skill, if there’s no open spot for the opponent to be pushed to, knock back auto misses. I’m not 100% on that, but with 95% chance to hit, multiple misses in multiple different battles against varied enemies makes it seem to be the case. Disappointing.

Pathfinder

Basically the auto third pick in tier 1 since others appear broken or useless. It’s handy and gives tremendous advantage anywhere that’s not flat plains. Best for ranged and ranged hunters, but right now an autopick for anyone going into utility due to issues with the other options.

Tier 2 – Now we’re getting interesting.

Brawny

Good perk for 2-handers, and to a lesser extent melees in general. You can add a ton of survivability to them without pouring a bump every level up into fatigue. Combos nicely with full force too. Usually not the strongest option though.

Battle Flow

It’s good, but I have a love/hate relationship with it. When it’s clutch, it’s clutch as hell. The rest of the time it does very little. Usually put it on ranged with perfect focus. Works ok on 2-handers and dedicated dagger guys too. Probably wouldn’t put it on anyone else myself, except MAYBE a swordmaster.

Footwork

Put this on javelineers with bullseye, close combat archer and killing frenzy. Profit. Good on any fragile ranged/utility guys you really don’t want to die also. Otherwise there are better options.

Captain

Get one. Super helpful in tough situations, and just generally useful anyway. I pretty much always try to get a really good captain with inspiring presence and load up any basic shield/x guys with holdout. Shield wall starts with confident for +10 melee ranged mdefense and rdefense? Plus a huge resolve bonus? Yes please.

Weaponmaster

As this reduces all skill costs this is pretty good. I find it to be more useful than battle flow most of the time, as the pre-action reduction can actually help you kill the guy if it’s a drawn out battle, whereas with BF you might lose out on an action, and a kill. With some weapons, you can basically attack all day and not really build up any significant fatigue. Usually preferred over BF.

Fearsome

Very good. Awesome on ranged guys or 1-handers with good hit chance. Try putting this on your whole front line and just spread the love around on your enemies. You’ll be chopping guys down with attacks of opportunity in no time.

Tier 3 – This is why you go full utility.

Rally the Troops

Insanely good. Probably the best perk in the game right now. On the right brother you can restore 50% max fatigue to your whole team at once. Crazy good. If you don’t have at least one guy with this, you’re making your life harder.

Inspiring Presence

Also incredibly good. Starting everyone with combat bonuses and an extra step away from bad morale is huge. If you somehow don’t feel you can spare 2 slots for tier 3 utility guys, then take rally over this. Otherwise, you want one guy with this. As I said earlier, combos nicely with holdout for morale shenanigans.

In summary, tier 1 could use some work, otherwise, IMO, utility is easily the best tree right now. I’ve made guys that take 9 or 10 perks in utility (holdout being the 10th for them) with usual tier 1, all 6 (or minus footwork) and inspiring presence. Try it, they’re beasts.

[Saitorosan]

Haha, I was testing out a high level sword guy once, made a new save, dismissed everyone else. Got into a fight with 8 or so werewolves, naked, with just one noble sword. It didn’t last very long, and I had to beat the remaining werewolves to death with my fists. I cackled wildly the entire time.

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