Reply To: Things that are so dumb, that makes me sick

#21405
hruza
Participant

I very much like concept of this game, but, if game pretend to be somewhat realistic, i see some issues there. So…

The issues you have are called “abstraction”. It’s like complaining about knight in chess being able to move only 2 tiles strait and one left or right when in reality knight can move in any direction.

Tactically this game is very elaborate chess.

Dumb thing number one:
Defensive abilities(shieldwall, spearwall, etc) cost AP and Fatigue. Furthermore, that cost even more than a strikes. How i can get tired just from hold my weapon and shield up? And even if so how it can be double, or even triple(!) more tiring than placing blows?

First of all, using abilities in game have to have some cost, otherwise you would be using them all the time. What cost do you suggest instead?

Second, holding weapon and shield actually does fatigue, especially holding it in a combat ready position. Roman shield could weight up to 10kg. Some other shields are even heavier. Try holding 10kg with one hand in front of you about where your shield would be in expectation of attack. Try to hold 2.5m pole from hard wood above your head at the same time.

And third, you shouldn’t take names of these abilities literally. Or do you know how to make spear wall and shield wall all by yourself? Shieldwall in real life is locking shield with your other comrades in formation, same with the spear wall. You can’t create shieldwall and spearwall all by yourself. Not unless you have more then two hands.

My understanding of the shieldwall and spearwall abilities is that these are positions which utilize shield or spear defensively in the battle with emphasis to provide better protection compared to just holding shield and spear in front of you. That is, these are active, not passive positions. Hence they cost fatigue. As for why they cost more fatigue then normal attack, I believe it’s because they are continuous activity rather then just one time stab. You are able to react to several opponents while using them, as opposed to just single enemy with normal attack. hence increased cost.

Dumb thing number two:
Weak effects from encirclement. By itself, works pretty strange in situation “wall-on-wall”, when everybody face two opponents and,thus, everybody get encircled and debuffs, that very dumb.

No, they actually makes perfect sense. If you have ever reenacted medieval foot battle, or watched one, you would realize that combatants don’t deal with just opponents they are facing, they can receive and deal attacks also to the guy left and right. And if enemy is using some sort of longer reach weapon from his back lines, then that something you are exposed to as well.

So single combatant in a battle line faces at minimum 3 opponents. Game mechanic is correct.

Dark age re-enactment with commentary

Dumb thing number three:
Miss hits, especially in “wall-on-wall” situation. Imagine that, to miss hit on a human size target right before you, you should be incredibly dumb. If you place a blow on a guy, that guy must parry(and suffer fatigue), or evade(and step away on free space). So, if you not have any free space to evade, not have a shield or a sword, you probably get hit, or at least your weapon get significant damage.

Again, had you watched or participated in a reenactment, you would realize that fighting does not involve mindlessly stabbing or poking in the general direction of your opponent. You are attacking specific weak points on your opponent, form specific angles, because he is not standing in front of you not minding your blows. He is first of all positioning himself the way that it is as hard for you to land a hit on him as possible. This in the most basic form means that he is maintaining safe distance from you and your weapon. He will be also actively parrying your attacks with his weapon and shield, if he have one.

Therefore “miss” in the game does not mean that you have failed to hit “man size target in front of you” as you imagine. It means most of the time that enemy have foiled your attack.

And no, your weapon won’t get significant damage. If it would, you are using crappy weapon unsuited for battle.

Dumb thing number four:
No any pre-battle phase. Come on, that obvious. Your squad spawn at random landscape in a just 1-2 turn reach, with no any space or time for tactical movement.
How that work on ironman? Oh…

Pre-battle is your formation/inventory screen. Yes, it’s fairly limited, but alternative would be to spend 10 turns in every single battle just to position yourself and your enemy.

Dumb thing number five:
Polearms hits second line through first. Seriously, how its work?

This how: