Reply To: What with the balance?

#21693
hruza
Participant

So i really lovet this game, you made orks balanced, and all balanced now, but the new undead legion is so owerpowered its unbeliveable.

I beg to differ. They have low initiative, don’t use any ranged, have extremely low HP, and they have crappy armors and generally subpar weapons (sometimes broken).

So they are undead.. they cant suffer from any effects that you could tactically use agaisnt other enemies i mean no fear, no bleeding, and they doesnt have fatigue penalty, and you cant use arrows on them (dont come with u can destroy their armor bullshit, arrows are useless vs them) so u cant get advantage from ranged attacks.

Destroying their armor with arrows is perfectly good tactics against them. What problem do you have with it? Besides, you can always use throwing axes. So yes, you can get advantage from ranged.

You cant use spear wall taht is really effective against all, but vs legionaries u cant, cuz they got 50% dmg from spear so it is simply not effective.

And aging wrong. Spearwall and Spears work perfectly well against them. Yes, spears do only 50% damage, however that apply only to their HP. Their armor suffers full damage and since their HP is so low, 50% reduction doesn’t matter that much. Moreover 20 bonus to hit from a spear practically overrides their shield defense. Spear is actually pretty good choice against undead in case your brothers don’t have good melee attack stats. Of course, if your brothers have 70/80+ melee attack, there are better weapons to use against undead.

Moreover they are like real living humans, they have the same action points, they can use skills like shieldwall, and fearsome (that is op again, vs late game company too) and etc. So if u fight them they do double line with spears, and shieldwall, so first you must destroy their shields to can score a hit (have u ever really tested these legionaries? if they use shield wall i can score 2-3/10 hit that is ridiculus) and after taht u have destroyed their shields u start hitting ( they got double grip now of course and two hits that sucks too).

Given all ancient dead have shield mastery, destroying their shields is generally bad idea. It just takes too much time and fatigue. Situationaly it might be plausible tactics, but generally you want to avoid it.

Ok u got axes and blunt weapons the finest weapons (fighting axe winged maces) u fight them, but u need heavy armor to survive the first 4 rounds. (dont forget the second lane with high accuracy and dmg spears) After the 4th 5th rounds your men start to be exhausted. so you can hit one that is all, when that comes they just massacre your man because they never got exhausted.
I beg you do something with that, they are not just overpowered enemies they are like gods vs humans and its not normal.

Consider taking recover as a perk, it helps against other enemies too.

Bring flails for your first line with shields. Flails ignore shield defense (but not shieldwall). Flails do wonders against undead.

Your main hitting power should however be your second line with polearms or longaxes. Pikes and billhoks have 50% penalty against undead, but just like in case with spears, it apply only to their HP, which is low anyway. The main problem with undead is to crack through their hard shell made of armor and shields to get to their soft low HP pool.

Let your first line with shields fix their line in place, maintain shieldwall as long as you can, or as long as it is tactically necessary, while your second line is concentrating on one or two enemies at the time. Don’t let yourself be distracted by lower attack chances, it takes only few hits to bring them down. Also watch for opportunities, sometimes some of them do 2 attacks and don’t shieldwall. Concentrate on those.

Their pikemen are the real hitting power and are by far more dangerous then legionaries. If enemy brings them to battle, consider sending flanking force made of few 2H experts, supported by few polearms/longaxes. You want to get rid of as many of their pikes as fast as possible. Fact that undead maintain rigid formation helps a lot with flanking.

If they bring honor guards, you may want to have some 2H expert with the 2H hammer. Works extremely well against them. Accidentally it works well also against their pikemen.

Given low initiative of undead, overwhelm perk works well against them. However since they don’t tire while you do, you will eventually loose this advantage in the course of the prolonged fight. With undead, you always want to get maximum from the first few rounds of the combat. You want to dispatch as many of theirs as possible so that you tip balance of the fight to your favor. Concentrate on those who don’t use shields (auxiliaries, pikemen) or who don’t shieldwall in that particular round. Having second line with the pikes as well as few dedicated 2H is essential.