Reply To: Spear Balance (Numbers and Tests Below)

#27241
dreamweaver
Participant

Someone asked for 2H spear as well on Reddit. Here they are.

Consideration: 2H spears, even famed 2H spears do a bit more with their utility attack with enough base damage. Note: This also needs to take into account that there is a higher cost for at least 5 turns of sustainability of spearwall due to the increased cost of 2H spearwall vs. 1h. 27 per time vs 23.

2H Weapons Of Utility
2H Flanged Mace: Damage 75-95; AID 50%; AD 125& (Secondary skill reduces damage by 50%)
2H Hammer: Damage 50-90; AID 50%; AD 200% (Secondary skill flat no damage debuff, hits up to 3 targets)
Spetum: Damage 55-75; AID 25%; AD 100% (Secondary skill reduces reduces damage by 50%)

Spetum vs. Chosen
HP = 130, Helmet = 190, Armor = 230
Death in 16.26286 hits on average.
StDev: 1.6305309585261076
% Hits to die: [(11, 0.004), (12, 0.8), (13, 4.664), (14, 10.996), (15, 16.016), (16, 18.956999999999997), (17, 20.838), (18, 22.54), (19, 5.152), (20, 0.033)]
First injury in 13.927605182960251 hits on average.
No chance of heavy injury.
First morale check in 8.22896 hits on average.
3.73287 Fearsome procs on average.
54.112381135 bonus armor from Forge on average.

This is vs. a Chosen. Not terrible. But that looks more like after 3+ rounds of them running into the spearwall.

Spetum vs. Orc Warrior
HP = 200, Helmet = 360, Armor = 400
Death in 30.88353 hits on average.
StDev: 2.695321388382815
% Hits to die: [(23, 0.02), (24, 0.27999999999999997), (25, 1.068), (26, 3.073), (27, 6.164), (28, 9.588000000000001), (29, 12.518), (30, 13.732), (31, 13.254), (32, 11.877), (33, 9.350999999999999), (34, 7.600999999999999), (35, 6.8870000000000005), (36, 4.026), (37, 0.553), (38, 0.008)]
No chance of injury.
No chance of heavy injury.
First morale check in 19.7743 hits on average.
3.25352 Fearsome procs on average.
198.9691547125 bonus armor from Forge on average.

There is not enough AID. This won’t deal any HP damage before the fight is already decided. My argument isn’t about usefulness, but utilization with perks compared to others.

Famed 2H Spear.
Consideration: The average stats of a brother’s background is usually taken into account when considering recruitment choices. I think the same should be done for famed weapons, as max rolling is very, very rare. And if that’s the case, then it’s saying this is useful with a max roll famed item. As I mention in an earlier post, it’s either a max roll famed spear or an average famed spear + 1-2 damage traits.
I used https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/statistics/average.php to determine the average.

Average Famed Spetum: Damage 63.5 (64) – 85; AID 33%; AD 115.1 (115)

Vs Chosen
HP = 130, Helmet = 190, Armor = 230
Death in 12.46391 hits on average.
StDev: 1.1974271795055023
% Hits to die: [(7, 0.001), (8, 0.011000000000000001), (9, 0.299), (10, 6.338000000000001), (11, 15.665999999999999), (12, 24.129), (13, 31.967000000000002), (14, 21.055), (15, 0.534)]
First injury in 10.441352348217606 hits on average.
No chance of heavy injury.
First morale check in 4.56438 hits on average.
4.66809 Fearsome procs on average.
55.055607569749995 bonus armor from Forge on average.
Significantly better chance to proc against a chosen. And death in 12.4ish hits.
Average Famed Spear Vs. Orc Warrios
HP = 200, Helmet = 360, Armor = 400
Death in 24.0594 hits on average.
StDev: 2.17493883674678
% Hits to die: [(18, 0.14100000000000001), (19, 1.086), (20, 3.925), (21, 8.225), (22, 12.537999999999998), (23, 15.101999999999999), (24, 15.439), (25, 14.202), (26, 13.419), (27, 12.049999999999999), (28, 3.7859999999999996), (29, 0.087)]
First injury in 25.950570342205324 hits on average.
No chance of heavy injury.
First morale check in 13.55486 hits on average.
4.11414 Fearsome procs on average.
200.558660022875 bonus armor from Forge on average.

13.5ish hits to hit HP is indeed better than the 1H spear. I wonder if spearwall takes into account duelist…interesting. Still, the HP damage is unlikely due to them shieldwalling then moving in.

Average Famed 2H Flanged Mace: Damage 86.5 (87) – 109.41 (109): AID 58%: AD 140%

Vs. Orc Warriors
HP = 200, Helmet = 360, Armor = 400
Death in 13.65885 hits on average.
StDev: 1.062251364451754
% Hits to die: [(9, 0.001), (10, 0.01), (11, 3.553), (12, 11.155), (13, 24.257), (14, 38.007999999999996), (15, 22.875999999999998), (16, 0.13999999999999999)]
First injury in 12.637201234842939 hits on average.
No chance of heavy injury.
First morale check in 3.90841 hits on average.
4.01524 Fearsome procs on average.
203.417247635 bonus armor from Forge on average.
See the discrepancy?

Conclusion: Famed 2H spears fair better on average than 1H spears with the perk interaction, though not significantly, so. Rolling a famed spear isn’t guaranteed, neither is getting a average or great rolled item similar to rolling that great brother. And a bro doing this spearwalling (doesn’t include +20%) needs very high MAttack because of shieldwall move into ZoC.