Topic: Bandit raiders

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  • #13903
    Fardax
    Participant

    I’m the only one that feel that bandit raiders are too op in terms of hit and dodge chance?
    They seem to have a really high hit and dodge chance, almost always land their hit even when my guys are using shields but when they’re using shields they become an unhittable target dodging everything and i need to always destroy their shield to hit them.
    I also made this pretty picture to show how i feel, sorry for my bad english

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    #13905
    Danubian
    Participant

    I dont know. I enjoy fighting raiders both because they are significantly tougher than thugs and because they drop quite useful items.

    I also dont feel like i ever had any problems fighting them. Maybe youre just too low level?

    #13912
    RusBear
    Participant

    del

    #13918
    Wargasm
    Participant

    They are tough if your company is young with few/no members who’ve levelled up and gained perks. But, basically, the typical bandit shield reduces the chance to hit by 15%, or by 30% when a shieldwall is formed (it’ll be more if several bandits are in shieldwall together and/or if they are on high ground). Additionally, all Bandit Raiders (unlike Thugs) have a generic 10 melee defence that drops the chance to hit by a further 10%. This doesn’t seem like much, but it can mean that the chance to hit drops from 55% (e.g. striking at a shield-less Bandit Thug with an axe) to 15% (striking at a Bandit Raider in a shieldwall with the same weapon).

    A good solution to the above problem is: (a) recruit some guys with decently high max fatigue; (b) give them large hand axes and shields, and a back-up weapon that has an extra +10/20% hit chance (e.g. spears or swords or scramasaxes); (c) use the first turn(s) to smash bandit shields with axes; (d) switch to the more accurate and less fatiguing weapons once the shields are gone; (e) patiently stab and slash away at the bandits’ hit points, and form a shieldwall if their high melee skill gets past your basal shield defence for significant damage.

    If some of your guys have high melee skill and max fatigue, you might keep hold of the axes and skip steps (d) and (e). Alternatively, you might give them spiked flails, which ignore the 15% basal shield defence but not the additional 15% defence from a shieldwall (i.e. a Bandit Raider in shieldwall will have only +15% shield defence and +25% total defence against a flail, not +30% and +45%). Flails are quite fatiguing to strike with, and cannot split shields, but their disregard of the basal shield defence means that an accurate mercenary will get some good, damaging hits in (without needing to waste energy on Split Shield) if he keeps striking away (even if each individual hit chance is still only 25-40%).

    All of the above strategies are more effective with the following perks:

    — Bags & Belts (more reserve items and no fatigue cost)
    — Quick Hands (arm with a hand axe only when you need it to smash a shield, and keep initiative higher and fatigue lower the rest of the time)
    — Sundering Strikes (light weapons with a higher hit chance can cut through armour more efficiently)
    — Dodge (effective if a mercenary has decently high basal initiative and already has some of the Utility perks that reduce fatigue and thus sustain initiative, since this means that you can forego fatiguing defence skills early in battle and keep fatigue low so that you can still form a shieldwall later on if you get hit and need extra protection
    — Any of the level 2 Utility perks that further reduce fatigue

    #13920
    Danubian
    Participant

    6 melees 6 archers

    6 archers go utility until you pick -50% fatigue for armors (take bags take that other one and take the one that lowers cost for bad terrain movement). After you pick -50% fatigue switch to defense, pick whatever you want until you get to nimble, after that you can do w/e you want youve got yourself extremely good bros.
    6 melees go defense until they hit nimble fighter, after nimble you can do w/e you want, i prefer to go utility and pick the same path as archers for that -50% fatigue for armors perk.

    If youre lucky with melee defense rolls on level ups youll get insane powerful melee bros that can easily take on Orc Warriors
    With my build youll also get access to that perk that removes negative morale effects (good for a number of enemies)

    There is nothing as satisfying as watching vampires go for your archers, only to have archers switch to a melee weapon and become basically immortal due to nimble and good armors.

    #13921
    RusBear
    Participant


    If youre lucky with melee defense rolls on level ups youll get insane powerful melee bros that can easily take on Orc Warriors

    Really?
    Why did you deceive a novice? :) Everyone knows that 12 orc warriors сan’t wins without a loss of any of even the smart-ass build :)
    Exactly as 30 heavy skeletons spread build 6 + 6 without a chance.
    This game is wonderful that you can invent whatever build and then meet the enemy who wanted to sneeze on your build, especially if you are more unlucky a couple of times with rnd.
    We are waiting for the tactical and perks patch. Now “late game” sad. So opponents are divided into those which are easy to have you and those that you have easy

    #13923
    Danubian
    Participant


    If youre lucky with melee defense rolls on level ups youll get insane powerful melee bros that can easily take on Orc Warriors

    Really?
    Why did you deceive a novice? :) Everyone knows that 12 orc warriors сan’t wins without a loss of any of even the smart-ass build :)
    Exactly as 30 heavy skeletons spread build 6 + 6 without a chance.
    This game is wonderful that you can invent whatever build and then meet the enemy who wanted to sneeze on your build, especially if you are more unlucky a couple of times with rnd.
    We are waiting for the tactical and perks patch. Now “late game” sad. So opponents are divided into those which are easy to have you and those that you have easy

    Sry but i have defeated 12 orc warriors with 6+6 nimble build at max level without losing anyone.

    Once you have melee fighters that orc warriors cant reliably hit (the whole point of nimble) and once you have a second line archers that can switch to 2 handed 2 tiles ranged weapons, orc warriors become a non issue really.

    Same thing with skellies. You just switch from crossbows to melee weapons and you have 12 capable melee fighters.

    Also i see you keep talking about “rnd” is that supposed to be Random Number Generation or something else?

    #13928
    RusBear
    Participant

    Perfectly. Very happy for you. Should be we play different games. However – it does not matter.

    #13929
    spamtaboo
    Participant

    Perfectly. Very happy for you. Should be we play different games. However – it does not matter.

    Stop whining about rnd already. I see you in every post with this not very smart idea to remove Random from the game and make it chesslike. I am sure devs already noticed your “idea”, no need to rub it in. Personally I am extremely against turning BB into chess and I do not await for any changes in this direction.

    #13930
    RusBear
    Participant

    Stop whining about rnd already..

    Usually I ignore boors on the internet like you, but today I have a very bad mood and have some free time, so here’s my answer.
    Forum exists to ensure that people have expressed their opinion on it. I will express my – you can express your – it is our right, but tell people “stop” you can only if create a private forum. Obviously, I hope?

    #13933
    Danubian
    Participant

    Perfectly. Very happy for you. Should be we play different games. However – it does not matter.

    I dont know what to tell you. The only way you can underestimate the power of nimble build is if you never tried it yourself. Beating 12 orc warriors is not impossible, you just need to make a highly specialized party.

    If you dont believe me find the Orc Warrior thread i made some time ago and in it people posted screenshots of beating orc warriors (i think meeky beat ~20 of them).

    #13934
    RusBear
    Participant

    I dont know what to tell you. The only way you can underestimate the power of nimble build is if you never tried it yourself. Beating 12 orc warriors is not impossible, you just need to make a highly specialized party.

    If you dont believe me find the Orc Warrior thread i made some time ago and in it people posted screenshots of beating orc warriors (i think meeky beat ~20 of them).

    I have no reason not to trust you. Moreover, I had the opportunity to assess the strength of the nimble build by myself , but for this I had to save/load game and employ 6 swordmasters. You agree that this is not a “sports”? :) I prefer to play in the ironman mod and deadly, as well as do not have the habit of replacing farmers who have proven their brave and level up to 5+ level by knights and sellswords. I think you see that in this mode to try to make from lumberjacks and so – 6 Nimble builds slightly problematic. That’s why I said that we may be play some different games :)

    #13936
    Danubian
    Participant

    The only thing ruining nimble build is the silly and stupid randomized stats on level up. :(

    #13938
    dltoster
    Participant

    Perfectly. Very happy for you. Should be we play different games. However – it does not matter.

    I dont know what to tell you. The only way you can underestimate the power of nimble build is if you never tried it yourself. Beating 12 orc warriors is not impossible, you just need to make a highly specialized party.

    If you dont believe me find the Orc Warrior thread i made some time ago and in it people posted screenshots of beating orc warriors (i think meeky beat ~20 of them).

    There is nothing to underestimate. IMHO nimble, magic horn and perfect focus are exploits. Excluded from use by houserule. Perfect focus nerfed in this update and i think other two eventually will be.

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