Topic: [Beta patch] Allow us to see recruit's stats for god's sake…

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  • #16671
    Danubian
    Participant

    Yes i know. You made a design choice to not let people see stats of characters they are about to recruit before they recruit them.

    But here is the thing. I hate this. And i hate it with passion. To a point where i would not play your game at all rather than play with this retarded rule.

    So what do i do?

    I save scum, obviously.

    When i start a game, i get to a city, save game, recruit everyone im even remotely interested in, check out their stats, remember their names, reload and recruit those i want. I do the same later on when i start replacing crappy recruits with more expensive ones.

    In essence im not doing what you want me to do, and im doing everything in my power to circumvent your design choice.

    So basically youre forcing me to waste time saving and reloading game, instead of adding a basic minimal interface that would allow me to see recruit stats, and then adding an option to turn this off for people who want to play the way you guys meant it to be played…

    Please change this. Its dumb.

    #16673
    OldGreyBeard
    Participant

    Funny, isn’t it. I’d whine loudly if they changed it to show stats at hiring!

    In a single player game, there's no such thing as cheating. It's merely "creative manipulation of the default settings"!

    #16675
    Danubian
    Participant

    Funny, isn’t it. I’d whine loudly if they changed it to show stats at hiring!

    Help me understand your position.

    Im asking for an option to do something im already doing, only without wasting my time (generally not a good thing in game design).

    Youre saying you dont like it.

    So dont use it?

    Whats your problem exactly?

    Play ironman mode, or disable this in options. Problem solved.

    #16680
    Bananenbaum
    Participant

    Prefer the way it is, you cant see stats before recruiting.
    And dont save scam, its cheating ;)

    #16683
    OldGreyBeard
    Participant

    Well, I guess I see the game as a challenge to keep a functioning, profitable Mercenary band going. In “real life”, I wouldn’t know traits like bleeder, coward, etc. until actual combat. I could get a rough idea of basic skills, which I can get just by the social class … beggars would probably not make good mercs. How loyal, how resolute a brother is is not something one can find out until the moment of truth. It’s rather like hiring a new employee. They may have a great resume, but they might not be right for the job.

    I’m not sure how trivial a “show / don’t show stats” option would be to code, but it would have to be real easy for me to want time diverted for that rather than used for bug squashing and progress in getting the game to completion.

    I’m not saying I don’t understand what you’re getting at. I’ve certainly had games where the recruits were so bad, I ran out of funds and got killed off trying to make money to replace them. I definitely would have liked a “preview stats” option then!

    I hope you can get around the drawbacks, or that it fits in the game design to have the enable/disable option put in.

    In a single player game, there's no such thing as cheating. It's merely "creative manipulation of the default settings"!

    #16685
    Danubian
    Participant

    Prefer the way it is, you cant see stats before recruiting.
    And dont save scam, its cheating

    I can potentially spend 100+ hours with a single brother, its only rational to want to optimize their quality. As long as game rewards save scumming i will continue to do it. Thats the way this game is fun for me.

    Also i dont understand some people who play this game.

    What is this obsession with making everyone else play the same way you play? Like if you enjoy something miserable, like recruiting a shit brother with 17 resolve due to bad perks, then play the game that way. I dont enjoy that, and i wish to spend my time in a better way.

    #16686
    Bananenbaum
    Participant

    Your choice, but you cant “demand” something from the devs if you like to play the game in a way its not meant to be.
    “I cheat in GTA for unlimited ammo, its more fun, so make it standard in the game so I dont waste time typing in the cheat code”
    Ehhhh nope?

    #16687
    Danubian
    Participant

    I hope you can get around the drawbacks, or that it fits in the game design to have the enable/disable option put in.

    Exactly, i have no aspiration to change anything about the way you play the game. If you enjoy the RNG lottery, go for it. I would however like option to avoid being forced to waste time save scumming. And im pretty sure its not THAT hard to do it. Also im not pushing for this to be done right away, im ok with it whenever they can fit it in their development schedule.

    #16689
    Danubian
    Participant

    Your choice, but you cant “demand” something from the devs if you like to play the game in a way its not meant to be.
    “I cheat in GTA for unlimited ammo, its more fun, so make it standard in the game so I dont waste time typing in the cheat code”
    Ehhhh nope?

    I dont feel like im entitled to anything – so im not demanding anything – but i do however, as a paying customer, feel im well within my rights to ask for something.

    And specially if i make a case with arguments for that which im asking for.

    And i feel i did that.

    So im not asking them to change anything about how they want the game to be played, im asking for more options for people who like the game itself, but just dont like some aspects.

    #16697
    OldGreyBeard
    Participant

    Your choice, but you cant “demand” something from the devs if you like to play the game in a way its not meant to be.
    “I cheat in GTA for unlimited ammo, its more fun, so make it standard in the game so I dont waste time typing in the cheat code”
    Ehhhh nope?

    I dont feel like im entitled to anything – so im not demanding anything – but i do however, as a paying customer, feel im well within my rights to ask for something.

    And specially if i make a case with arguments for that which im asking for.

    And i feel i did that.

    So im not asking them to change anything about how they want the game to be played, im asking for more options for people who like the game itself, but just dont like some aspects.

    Wow, sorry to stir things up for you!

    And yes, you are within your rights. Actually, it’s good to be in the early access for just that reason. Anyway, as my signature says, “There’s no cheating in a single player game …” Now, if there were only some way to boost stats as in Mount & Blade Warband! (and did I ever get flamed for admitting I did that on their forum!)

    I guess I was trying to give you the rationale behind that particular game choice.

    In a single player game, there's no such thing as cheating. It's merely "creative manipulation of the default settings"!

    #16706
    Hypnoticborrat
    Participant

    I agree with Danubian, but I’d like to keep the status quo as default and make showing stats an option.

    #16715
    mekaerwin
    Participant

    Don’t care if they give it as an option, but I do prefer the way it is. On a side note, what game doesn’t reward save scumming. Some try to stop it more than others, but all will reward you by getting to change your mistakes. Save scumming is always rewarding, that’s why you have to discipline yourself to not use it. If the devs change to suit you, good for you, but your post did come across as a bit demanding. Especially since no one could be truly said to be “forcing” you to waste your time. Also, what is “dumb” is very speculative and since I’ll wager the devs allowed it by design instead of accidentally, the comment probably isn’t very helpful to your case.

    #16717
    gepardowaty
    Participant

    I like the fact that I don’t know stats of people who I’m hiring and there is that “random” factor.
    If you’d show the stats of battle brothers, their professions become basicly a fluff noone would even care about, hiring the best guys out there.

    If you want to min-max, savescum. This game is loosely inspired by UFO games, and even the nu-xcom ain’t showing soldier stats. That’s actually very good design choice for such game.

    BUT, they could add some kind of option to evalute “talents” of some brothers. Maybe as tips from the Innkeeper? Lets say that there is Ulfric The Beast on your potential recruit list. You should have an option to ask the Innkeeper about him for a few gold coins, so he tells you what he might know “yadda yadda yadda, Ulfric is pretty strong and he mastered the sword, I tell ya!”
    Or just more potential gossip about guys in a recruit list, so you might get an idea who’s a goldfish.

    #16718
    Danubian
    Participant

    Don’t care if they give it as an option, but I do prefer the way it is. On a side note, what game doesn’t reward save scumming. Some try to stop it more than others, but all will reward you by getting to change your mistakes. Save scumming is always rewarding, that’s why you have to discipline yourself to not use it. If the devs change to suit you, good for you, but your post did come across as a bit demanding. Especially since no one could be truly said to be “forcing” you to waste your time. Also, what is “dumb” is very speculative and since I’ll wager the devs allowed it by design instead of accidentally, the comment probably isn’t very helpful to your case.

    I did specifically address demanding in one of my replies not sure if you saw that. So i refute this claim about demanding as simply ad hominem.

    If people want hardcore experience, they can play ironman, some of us dont – or rather at least i dont. If you have a feature that frustrates someone, and you can easily circumvent this feature, then this feature is poorly designed. Either change the feature or create an option to turn it off. You prefer the way it is, i dont. It frustrates me, needlessly. Im asking for something that removes frustration for me, and does nothing for you. To be quite honest i dont see what it is you lose here. Also note that i specified in another reply that im no pushing for any time table, or anything, just asking them to consider doing this.

    I like the fact that I don’t know stats of people who I’m hiring and there is that “random” factor.
    If you’d show the stats of battle brothers, their professions become basicly a fluff noone would even care about, hiring the best guys out there.

    If you want to min-max, savescum. This game is loosely inspired by UFO games, and even the nu-xcom ain’t showing soldier stats. That’s actually very good design choice for such game.

    BUT, they could add some kind of option to evalute “talents” of some brothers. Maybe as tips from the Innkeeper? Lets say that there is Ulfric The Beast on your potential recruit list. You should have an option to ask the Innkeeper about him for a few gold coins, so he tells you what he might know “yadda yadda yadda, Ulfric is pretty strong and he mastered the sword, I tell ya!”
    Or just more potential gossip about guys in a recruit list, so you might get an idea who’s a goldfish.

    Sure why not, that sounds ok (in fact this could work pretty well specially after the new game start now that i think about it, pretty good idea).

    #16723
    Asterix_von_TWC
    Participant

    I am happy with the hidden stats as well

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