Topic: Feedback v. 6.0.13

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  • #13197
    Eisbrecher
    Participant

    Just a few impressions, on version 6.0.13 (there was a patch uploaded on 9/3 but the game still reads as 6.0.13):

    It’s still frustratingly easy to come across an unbeatable group of enemies early in the game. By early, I mean even during the very first week: 8 raiders and such, or 6 young orcs and 1 warrior. With cloth armor and those flimsy weapons available to companies just starting out, it can be a brutally punishing experience.

    Swamps can be too prevalent in map generation. One or two towns near swamps (possibly along the borderlands) would be reasonable and also add character to the game: two citadels and 6 out of 8 noble houses sitting in swamps is not good, particularly -you guessed it- early in the game).

    Missions are way too random: sending 7 rookies to hunt direwolves? And not just once, but three times in a row? (although, I came across a delightful little twist in the “hunt dirwolves” mission, the ambush was excellent!) Patrol missions can be a boon (if there are reasonably manageable enemies along the route) or a bane, if there are no enemies along the route. Still, I like those more than, say, sending a team during its second week to deliver a package for a measly 120 gold (and that’s after haggling) only to be ambushed by 5 mercs and a hedge knight… Also, if a new team agrees to deliver a package, has it stolen (in an unavoidable twist of the plot) and then has to reclaim if from, yes, you guessed it, 6 bandits and 2 marksmen, it can lead the game to an early dead end: even if the player manages to defeat the raiders, the team is so badly mangled, shield shattered, armor in tatters, it’s nigh impossible to recover. And then, the nobles: there should be a way for them to “understand” what sort of team they’re dealing with (i.e. “read” the team stats/composition etc.): during my early adventures, I’m constantly being asked to raid orc camps that have, at times, included 4-5 warriors and 6+ young ones.

    In short, I do love a challenge, but he game needs more pace: as I’ve written in the comments of a recent blog post, creating a challenging environment is just fine, but players should have a fighting chance.

    #13199
    Rap
    Keymaster

    We’re working on balance and progression this week to smoothen things out a bit. Consider sending us your savegame to contact@overhypestudios.com so we can use it as a testing point.

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    #13200
    RusBear
    Participant

    I pointed out the absurdity of the job for 300 coins and the ambush of 16 mercenaries of this premise. When befor fix such ambushes were 3 at a half a day, I do not take the job for the delivery. after fix I decided to check how things are now- got on the hundredth day of the company’s mission to deliver the parcel for 600 coins. this package I have tried to take away for 18 dressed in the full armor of mercenaries including 2 master sword and knight. I did not get any useful loot after a battle but spent about a hundred instruments to re :) I think that with the delivery of the goods in BB to me finished :)

    #13202
    Eisbrecher
    Participant

    We’re working on balance and progression this week to smoothen things out a bit. Consider sending us your savegame to contact@overhypestudios.com so we can use it as a testing point.

    Thank you for the reply; please don’t misunderstand me, I love Battle Brothers (wouldn’t have logged almost 400 hours otherwise) but at times the game does some odd things (especially in terms of what sort of teams roam the map early on and what sort of quests are handed out).

    Started a new game after the latest patch, got a reasonable raid against bandits (7 thugs plus 3 marksmen with bows, attacked at night, effectively crippling the bowmen) and a cemetery mission (got the zombies, 11 in total, 6/5 armored-regular) which was doable as I had the high ground. A much smoother start, not too many swamps, reasonably generated mountain ranges: in all, a promising map.

    Whatever happens this time round, I’ll keep the savegame to send it, I prefer to play “ironman”, so once I’ve lost, I delete the savegames so as not to be tempted to reload and retry the battle, but I realize this is not particularly helpful for testing purposes.

    #13208
    roarus
    Participant

    Hi guys!
    Thank you for a great game, but there are a couple of comments (sorry for my mistakes in English))

    1.Road patrol missions makes game too easy on mid and late stage – 60(+) gold per head reward and 3-4 destroyed direwolfes(undead, young orks, raiders) gangs\forts on the whole world – give you give about 10000+ gold (and dont forget about booty). This is especially applicable to the cemetery, where a lot of enemies and they are weak for the average game.
    Difficulty – challenge.
    2.If the player’s camp was attacked, after loading the autosave is a 60% chance that the enemy will not attack.

    #13209
    Eisbrecher
    Participant

    Spoke too soon, I guess :)

    I got a mission to chase off some bandits near a town (week 1) and it turned out to be a group of 9 heavily armored bandit raiders (4 with pikes…)

    I managed to defeat them, keeping all 3 starting companions and 1 of my recruits, but my company will take some serious rebuilding. I got two decent armors (1 from a slain enemy, 1 from one of my fallen companions) and 2 of the 4 pikes, but it will be tough.

    I mean, battles like this can be won, but it shouldn’t be something that frequent in the early stages of the game.

    By the way, where do I find my savegames, so that I could send them, should I encounter another killer group early on?

    #13212
    dltoster
    Participant

    Do not think that the game needs an ease. Playing on deadly non-reload and I started to do missions (Hoggart) at my best by a day 50. Slow and steady. And sometimes they give me delivery contract 1500K = 2 days journey – that is too generous. When they try to give you 300 crowns – just refuse. I think you guys can learn to run. And do not run amok in all the missions greedy village elders can give to you. They must not to think about surviveability of your party, this is your job. When your party not equiped and fullisted with men and dogs – just take delivery and look for good opportunites on strategy map. Give up contracts, run away on strategic map, withdraw from battles, hit and run forts (you can try to lure out of ranks marksmen and kill them, then withdraw and repair).
    Mercenary ambushers do not want battle as i remember – you can just give up the cargo to the adult mercenaries. Today. Avenge later. When my party was slaughtered second time in bandits fort by 2 bandit leaders (again there were 3 of us remained from 12 and their remaining leader choose to limp away rather than kill my 3 fatigued and gravely wounded criples (i think he could, but clever man did not take that risk, so be clever too)). So, I killed another one famous leader who happened there by accident and his head could worth some additional money, which i needed to rebuild the company in that moment. But bounty hunters met me before settlement and they were convincing. So I gave away my trophy but not jump in suicidal fight with them. And move on, and rebuild full squad. And there is still a place to grow up for my company. I think there is no need to ease things, it can ruin my game expirience which i am happy as it is now. I remember before updates times when the game became boring too fast (too easy).

    #13213
    dltoster
    Participant

    You say you encounter killing group – but you not. You jus see them from a hill, this is your choice to go down from a hill and fight them. With some expirience you will be able to say which fight can be won with reasonable risk and which is can not. Speed balancing on strategy map allows to avoid almost all enemy parties. You can be caught by an accident in a rough terrain border or by multiply groups, or just do bad maneuring only. And even then you could withdraw with ease on tactical map, if you are not ambushed. I once managed to ran away with both my remaining characters when was surrounded by 8-10 enemies. As for now it needs houserule – to wait the first intact with enemy unit on tactical map if was caught before start running.
    If you want to kill everything on a map in a first week, play on easier level, do not ask to break the game cause it is too hard for you, because now it is not. It gives depth to further gaming experience.

    #13218
    Eisbrecher
    Participant

    I’m playing on challenging level and I am not trying to kill everything on the map. Just trying to survive. There’s only so many missions you can turn down before you run out of money and/or food.

    Also, with the swamps swamping the map, it’s not always possible to run away from the tac map. Just before saving to come and post this message, I had to run away from 3 bandit companies (6/7/9) early on week 2. I wasn’t looking for trouble, just walking between neutral settlements.

    I was sent on a mission for 400 gp (after haggling) against 9 raiders. End of week 1.

    Also, a small glitch introduced post v. 6.0.12 (I think): when asked to deliver a package, instead of the character’s name, the text reads “false” (in the main body of the text).

    #13221
    dltoster
    Participant

    Ok, I understand that multiply enemy parties can catch you. Just a bad luck. I just disagree that devs must do that every mission is completable for player in any moment of the rising of his company. There are missions (like greenskin fort attack) that his own knights refuse to go on, because they are suicidal. And this lord just looking for a cannon fodder that will try and succed maybe. Or not, that is only lost advance payment for him. I think player better not to take attack forts missions from lords until they are have 8+ level fullsquad in better than bandit raider armor and weapon (150+ armor). You can take deliveries, next try to attack cemetaries by village elders contracts, direwolves/disguised raiders is next challenging level, plus patrol missions. But they can still try to give you fort attack missions, your option is not to take it. It is not right that lord must have a problem with tiniest greenskin fort that can be conquered by 8 hobos. He can destroy such little threat like that by his own knight forces and not to pay them more than he already pays. I mean it is ok, that some missions can not be done by player party in current state. They wiil be succedable in future. But i agree that payment must be musch higher for fort attack then delivery. Ok, you can say that this lord is a cunning creaturethat tries to fool you and send for a csuicidal missions for 100 crowns. Refuse him.

    Sorry if i sounded rude, English is not fluent for me and it can be troubling to choose a correct tone.

    #13224
    Eisbrecher
    Participant

    I understand perfectly well that not every enemy is beatable, at every stage of the game; it’s even one of the tips during the loading screens. That’s not what I’m saying.

    What I’m saying is that there should be some way to moderate how many “kill the direwolves” or “storm the greensking fort” missions a player gets at any given time. Regardless of level. Skipping a couple of such missions is fine (and survivable, even at the early stages of the game). Having to skip seven such missions in a row can cause problems, particularly during the early game.

    Another issue is the map generation, which can aggravate the problems arising from an unfortunate choice of missions: starting in a town surrounded by a vast forest and getting ambushed on day 2 by 7 direwolbes is not, in my opinion, fun in any way. Getting players killed through no fault of their own is something that should be avoided.

    Let’s not forget that Battle Brothers will have to reach out to a broader audience once it leaves early acces; it’s not just veterans who’ll play this game: starting in a vast expanse of swamps and having to face 3 groups of goblins coming from 3 different directions, is something that should be avoided, as a design choice, regardless of whether you’ve clocked in hundreds of hours in early access or you’re spending your first minutes in the game.

    In terms of “in-game realism”, I have to say that getting called by the local lord because my ragtag team got “noticed” after delivering a couple of packages is not very believable. It’s not a priority, of course, but I think access to the noble houses should come after a team has done something noteworthy (perhaps raze a bandit stockade or even a fort with raiders/leader).

    By the way, goblins seem overpowered to me; I got involved in a battle where two local militias and my company fought 6 goblins (3 melee, 3 archers). The little blighters did not miss once. Not once. And it’s not the first time I’ve noticed such uncanny prowess on their part. Even when they were losing morale (very, very late in the skirmish, most died at full morale), they were landing each and every blow, each arrow. Goblins should pose a threat in numbers (like in Lord of the Rings), not sniping from far away, poisoning everyone that approaches and overall acting like some elite fighting unit. I know that nighttime is a good way to negate their ranged advantage, but still, they feel way too strong; in daytime, I’d rather fight orcs than goblins. Those six goblins killed 8 militia and injured 4 of my guys before they fell; give me 10 young orcs over this.

    Orcs, on the other hand, fight exactly like I would imagine they’d approach a battle: brute strength, charging the line. Good stuff (and I’ve lost many a good man to these brutes), I think the devs have the orcs spot on.

    Raiders are also nicely done, they attack and defend well. The undead are rare, in my v. 0.6.xx experience, outside the cemeteries and a couple of necromancer lairs.

    Overall, good stuff, but I think some tweaking is needed.

    #13240
    kingslomein
    Participant

    I have started 2 games so far. I’m enjoying both! Loving the new patch.

    In my first game, the beginning quest was on a small island. I was worried until i realized my brothers could just walk across over to the island. Must have been shallow enough I guess. I will say in that in my first game it seems every city/town I go to there is always one or two quests. In my second game right off the bat I noticed a scarcity of quests. I had to travel past 4 city/towns in order to find my first quest after the starter. I play on challenging difficulty on both.

    Overall I’m really happy with the game so far, and love the new patch.

    At first I thought the goblins were way to over powered. But the more I play the more I realize how to counter them. Now they aren’t so bad. My 10 Brothers just fought 2 goblin camps back to back with not a single loss, being out numbered each time.

    #13253
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    I’m playing on challenging level and I am not trying to kill everything on the map. Just trying to survive. There’s only so many missions you can turn down before you run out of money and/or food.

    I think that’s the source of the problem. On even enemies seem to be easier and you get more gold, and everything is less expensive. On challenging my zombies wear leather and mail armors with decent weapons (such as short swords, etc.), while on even they are more peasant-like. Same goes for bandits: I encounter more raiders than thugs, who often are better equipped than me in the beginning.

    This means that fights are more tough, you lose brothers more often, have to replace them (including some of their gear, like armor or shields) and that costs money. You have to repair the damage and heal up, this is extra cost (stuff is more expensive on challenging than on even). On top of that you get paid LESS and have to work with that.

    That’s, in my opinion, why challenging is so hard to go through right now in comparison to even. Not because of enemies alone but the overall cost of running your mercenary band AND encountering more challenging enemies. Most quests we have in the game now are combat related so it’s not like you can get together some coin by doing delivery or exploration mission to recover. I only managed to recover from a pyrrhic victory because I had some assets stockpiled from past battles for emergencies.

    #13257
    Usikava
    Participant

    Can’t understand your complains about deliveries. Haven’t you tried to avoid roads? That’s the first thing I tried with this ambush\event system and it works great. Yes you spend more time traveling but avoid most problems in early game, build up finances take a batter gear(well better then farm tools), start attacking graveyards to build up xp, and your company is good to go. If you can’t handle a mission yet, just don’t take combat missions…

    #13258
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    That is I what also notice.
    I start my first game on deadly and it was deadly. Always short of coin. Enemy better armed. Losses hard to replace. Prices high.
    Then I switch to even.
    Contracts easy and with decent pay. food, tools, medicine cheap. I don’t need them all that much because enemies are low tier trash that I can easily deal with. And that is big problem on deadly to even keep your weapons in shape – especially that you start with low resources. Get stable situation. Bored fast.
    Try 2nd difficulty level. Get used to it.
    Now I play on deadly.
    Its hard. On beginning. But its get easier with time.
    Recently I roll new map and I have good start.
    Some easy trade. Trade goods is must on Deadly on start.
    Good map is a key.
    Get lucky in some fight(low losses, not all items disappear).
    Still have no reserves or decent weapons for all(only 8 soldiers). All heavy loss battle and I am in deep shit.
    Only way now to recover is trade but you need cash for it.

    I think big problem is that locations for contracts are generated from thin air. They are not generated by world.
    There is no bandit camp that molest villagers before you take the contract.

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