Topic: Fleeing is too annoying

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  • #21514
    Avatar photoWaterd

    I started to play the game on release, and Only played Expert ironman so far.
    I was unable to survive the first 2 weeks, until the last 3 runs (i’m right now in my run number 11) Where I’m lasting a few months (in the last run i’m 70 days in).
    What was the key difference in strategy that allowed me tu survive? Finding the power of fleeing. Specially when you don’t know the game perfectly, you will often find you in battles that will be horrible. The solution is to flee.
    A common tactic is that I have an arsenal of weapons at my disposal for different sets of tactics, So when the enemy is unknown, I go in, scout, flee, then re arm, and attack.
    Bottom line, I flee a lot.

    The problem I have? Is extremly annoying to flee. it takes me several minutes to flee. I have to point each of the 12 brothres to the exit, which is around 4 turns, and see all the enemy movement. It’s hugely annoying, it takes me like 5 minutes, while i’m in no danger at all.
    I have animations accelerated for both players. Still is a pain.
    If I die in this run, (which is expected since it’s a matter of time where i’m surprised by a new kind of enemy that I do not know how to deal with), I’m hesitant to start a new run, on the fear of having to experience the horrors of fleeing. 3-5 minutes to flee is unacceptable.

    I’m not a game designer, so I don’t know the proper solution, but here are some ideas mostly to pinpoint my problem.
    -When you click the flee button, the computer simulates if your bros can just run to the exit and flee, and those that get caught up receive a wound and or damage if you want.

    -Make fleeing tactical interesting in all battles so its not a matter of clicking the exit for 5 minutes.

    -Balance the game around making fleeing a lot more painfull (maybe it’s impossible to escape without wounds, maybe morale is really destroyed, maybe there is a risk of a brother abandoning you for coward on the spot, etc etc.)

    -Make the map a lot smaller, I don’t see why it has to be so big, this tough wouldn’t solve the problem but lessen it’s effect.

    -Allow to change weapons after seeing enemy and before fight. Again, prolly wouldn’t solve the problem, but would reduce drastically the necessary amount of fleeing.

    Bottom line, I flee a lot, and was the difference between 2 weeks runs and 3 months runs, and it’s super annoying and is hugely hindering my enjoyment of the game how annoying is to flee.

    Avatar photohruza

    In most of the fights you can see composition of the enemy force before battle. No need to flee. On the occasions when you don’t know enemy composition, there are some where you can reasonably predict it. Like for example during retrieving idol from burial site you are likely to meet undead. Another giveaway are names of the locations (again, when there is mention of burial expect undead) and banners. Different enemies use distinct stiles of their banners.

    As for the rest, I found out that my “standard” composition works in most cases and I don’t need to reequip too much against particular enemy. Your force should be fairly universal. I like to reequip my front line with spears for spearwall spamming when facing direwolves and nachzehrers but otherwise I don’t swap gear too much other then swapping kite shields on my front rank when I expect enemy to have lot of ranged.

    Avatar photoWaterd

    You can’t see it on caravan contracts, you can’t see it on many camps attacks, and sometimes even if you can see it, you still are forced to fight, but can later flee.

    Reasonable predict is not enough, i’ve tried but sometimes the prediction is wrong, and i flee. It’s ok if your standard composition works, It doesn’t work for me, As I said i did 10 runs before with early deaths it was only until i started fleeing constantly and Having Target specific equipment that i started to doing great, right now on day 82 with 5k+ gold and a full level equipped team and 4 reserves.

    Clearly the tactic work, maybe there are others, but surviving in expert ironman is already hard enough, i don’t need to handicap myself by trying to find midgame a strategy that just happens to not be as annoying. If one of the few reliable strategies work, it’s expected me to use it, we don’t even have the claim “Well it works on Expert, but what about megaexpert? you are handicapping your way by using such strategy” No there isn’t.

    My point is, there is clearly a very good strategy to do well in expert ironman, and it happens to be terrible annoying. The great value I see in the game is that you can try your hardest to survive, and still be a challenge. Part of trying my hardest is to flee, something even encouraged by the tips. It just happens to be terrible annoying to do.

    Avatar photoNamespace

    I think the only structures that hide enemy composition are ruins, graveyards/crypts and undead burial grounds at retrieve artifact missions.
    Ofc, if you get ambushed during the night you can also not see enemy composition, however you will be able to see them if you hover over the enemy party on the worldmap. It can be quite difficult to hit pause in time when you’re on a caravan escort but usually it is possible if you pay attention.

    As for how to deal with unclear enemy composition. If you can afford it, buy a Hawk. They are really great for scouting, especially in the woods or if the enemy spawns with the high ground. I put it on my archer in the backline, as he can still escape after releasing the hawk if needed. Frontline might get caught in the 2nd round.

    If you plan to flee from the fight, only use a single brother to scout it out so you take less time to move people around. Alternatively you can Alt+F4 though ofc, that would be cheating :P.

    Now about those buildings:
    Retrieve artifact contracts will always have skeletons and in some cases a few Necrosavants on top of that. Hawk will help you to figure out if they have Necrosavants, then you should put some macers behind the backline to protect archers (if you even take any against undead) or polers and to stun Necrosavants. Generally, they can have Auxiliaries, Legionaires, Honor Guards, Ancient Priest, Necrosavants.

    Cemetary/Crypt will have either Brigands, Nachzehrers, Wiedergangers, Fallen Heroes and sometimes Necromancers (not 100% on that one). I am certain that there are never any Geists in those locations though.

    Ruins: They can have every enemy except Skeletons (and maybe Nachzehrers). I try and get information from taverns or via contracts about those locations usually. Once my guys are competent, I engage those locations with 2 Sargeants and 3 Archers to be ready for Geists and Necromancers. Again, a Hawk will help you greatly to figure out if they have a Necromancer or Fallen Heroes with Greataxe/sword and how many Geists there are, if there are more on one flank than another etc.
    You might also see some footprints next to the ruins which will give you a hint as to what kind of enemy there might be.

    As for fleeing: It used to be that using the flee button when not at the edge of the map always killed off some brothers or at least gave them permanent wounds. I don’t think that the fleeing mechanic right now is OP. I like not having to lose a lv20 Veteran because of a bad RNG streak. Or because I run into some Necrosavants on the worldmap early.

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