Topic: Morale Checks While Stunned?

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  • #18805
    Wargasm
    Participant

    I’ve just realized that characters still undergo morale checks (positive and negative) while stunned, which seems unrealistic (i.e. too dazed to maintain a shieldwall for extra defence, but still able to become confident and obtain extra 10% skill bonuses because a neighbour bashed in an orc’s head).

    #18810
    Rahziel
    Participant

    I’d say dodging an attack in stunned state is even more unrealistic, but it happens all the time nonetheless..

    #18811
    RusBear
    Participant

    the enemy who fleeing in panic continues to hide behind the shield if he covered before then panicked. I can’t agree with this too )

    #18812
    Orthega
    Participant

    I think you’re “defaulting” to how the “Stun mechanic” is built in many games.
    I mean in most games the “Stunned status effect” completely incapacitates the target for a set period of time, but one could argue that it’s just an arbitrary gameplay decision (and a completely correct interpretation of the meaning that word carries, but not the only one).

    Let’s say you’re referring to a “Hard Stun”, while in Battle Brothers you get only a “Light Stun”, that dazes you for a turn but still leaves you (mostly) capable to defend yourself as you’re struggling to recover.

    To me it’s fine calling this a Stunned state, even if it differs to what being Stunned is in most of other games =)

    the enemy who fleeing in panic continues to hide behind the shield if he covered before then panicked. I can’t agree with this too )

    If I’m not mistaken, a stunned or panicked character do lose shieldwall, are you sure about it?

    EDIT: Sorry RusBear I read that backwards, my bad XD
    I think that if a character routs and starts fleeing from the battle, he’s turning and leaving its back exposed (and with his mind numbed by fear he doesn’t realise that by doing that he’s in more danger than if he kept defending himself), that’s why dropping shieldwall and other sustained abilities while panicked makes sense to me.

    #18814
    RusBear
    Participant

    You do not need to apologize, it’s my fault – my English is very bad. I will try to speak more clearly: the shield bonus continues to operate even when the enemy flees from the battlefield.

    #18819
    Ned Stark
    Participant

    You do not need to apologize, it’s my fault – my English is very bad. I will try to speak more clearly: the shield bonus continues to operate even when the enemy flees from the battlefield.

    Perhaps the bonus should be reduced, but unless the character drops the shield, I suppose that it is still possible for the shield to block some kind of attack, whether it is intentional to block it or not.

    "It is not death that a man should fear, but he should fear never beginning to live." ~Marcus Aurelius

    Game: "Characters with a height advantage against their opponents are harder to hit"
    Me: "That's not true, and my short axeman is living proof!"

    #18824
    Wargasm
    Participant

    The basic defence bonus from carrying a shield can be seen as merely a passive bonus that results automatically from having a hard piece of wood held in front of your body. The extra bonus from forming a shieldwall (which requires much more conscious effort) is cancelled while stunned. You could argue that merely holding a shield in front of you also requires some conscious effort, but still …

    On the other hand, basal defence skills, without a shield, do remain entirely intact while stunned, which admittedly also seems unrealistic. Fleeing characters, by contrast, have all of their attacking and defending skill totals (including any from forming a shieldwall) reduced by 30%, which does make sense.

    In a way, it would make sense if being stunned (in addition to cancelling any shieldwall) reduced a combatant’s total melee and ranged defence by some amount, similarly to lower morale states or being trapped in nets or swamps. The only trouble with that is that orc young and berserkers can stun automatically, without even doing any damage. So maybe it would be possible for stunning to only reduce defence totals if the stunning blow does damage to hit points? I’m not sure …

    As for the original issue (morale checks while stunned), I can see it being plausible that enough consciousness is retained to feel morale effects (and to keep holding a shield and weapon without making any fancy moves), but I raised the issue because I wasn’t sure whether it had been intended that way.

    #18828
    Rahziel
    Participant

    The only trouble with that is that orc young and berserkers can stun automatically, without even doing any damage.

    They stun only if they ‘hit‘ with their charge skill, but if it’s a ‘miss‘, then no stun applies. So it’s ok as it is – good base defence or shieldwall and you’re safe.

    If we assume the stun here is like being disoriented or just breaking a posture enough to drop riposte/shield/spearwall, then the mercenary still can hear and see what happened around him, so morale check should work as usual.

    #18830
    Wargasm
    Participant

    True, they only stun if their “charge” results in a hit, but the “charge” obviously has an elevated hit chance, and a hit itself doesn’t actually do any damage to armour or hit points, unlike stunning hits with a mace weapon.

    #18847
    Ieuan Mawr
    Participant

    If I was fleeing in fear for my life, whether or not i held on to my shield would be entirely dependent on context. It might be that dropping everything possible and running would save me. If I’m under fire, I don’t think I’d let go of that shield for anything – I can’t sidestep a cross bow bolt when jogging, but a big shield would cover my torso.

    There should be multiple possible outcomes as to what a character does when he (she in the future?) routes. Example:

    (a) No weapon drop
    (b) Drops one item
    (c) Drops all items

    #18848
    Wargasm
    Participant

    Ah, but what if they drop all items but then (after running to the opposite edge of the map) rally?

    #18849
    Rahziel
    Participant

    Then they realise that they’re f*cked and begin shitting bricks..
    After that they can try to scavenge some weapons someone had before, or hide behind the trees and continue shitting bricks.

    #18857
    Ieuan Mawr
    Participant

    Exactly.

    #18859
    Wargasm
    Participant

    No. They need to be able to catapult shitty bricks at orc warlords with a +30 chance to hit (+10% additional damage per tile of distance).

    #18860
    Orthega
    Participant

    Incoming Brick-shitter trait in the next update, when character routs and starts fleeing, he gains a free ranged attack against a random target in the opposite direction of his movement.

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