Topic: (Need) Late game strategy help

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  • #21584
    Avatar photoBouncedasaChild

    Hi everyone!,
    So i got this game last week or something, and been playing a lot during easter. I am in the late game now, with almost twenty guys around lvl 11, and my secound endgame crisis (orcs) spawned recently. I was going to raid and pillage the three large orc camps i’ve found on the map edge, for the challenge mostly, but been severely beaten several times now (reloading) by them. I hade the same problem when facing one “lost sunken city/forgotten empire” location with loads of honorary guards.

    With the orcs i’ve been trying many different strategies.
    I usually run a mix of spear+shields mixed with two-handed hammers/swords and hammer+shields on the front line. In the back i’ve tried both with archers and polearm guys.

    Never really thought of orcs as the worst enemies. That goes to those DAMNED piked nobles and legionnaire troops hitting from secound row. But this battle seems unwinnable for me. The orcs number in 24 and got a leader, around 5 berserker, 10-12 warriors and the rest younglings.

    Can any of you think of any way i could improve my strategy/deployed troops comps or item usage to win this stupid fight?

    Avatar photoNibblewerfer

    Now this is terrible, and probably shouldnt be heeded but I will go through with it anyways.
    In my game i have used cheat engine to allow 18 people in my active group and find it much more fun to play with larger groups though if you are a glutton for punishment keep going with any other strategys.

    Avatar photoBouncedasaChild

    Now this is terrible, and probably shouldnt be heeded but I will go through with it anyways.

    No need to feel bad, and i might try an cheat enginge another playthrue. Really dislike when they hamper complexity or depth just to make things harder, sometimes you just want to experiment and see all possible outcomes.

    Right this instance tho i just want to see those orcs dead and burned : )

    Avatar photoMike


    well it IS called a crisis for a reason ;) seriously though, here’s how I deal with them (lemme know if you need some further explanation):

    1. Serious ranged firepower (I usually roll with 4 bows and 2 crossbows) and prioritizing targets: kill berserkes before they can reach your line and get their rage rolling. Next are enemies with axes, because of point 2. Target the youngs next, ’cause you’ll kill 3 in the same amount of shots it takes to seriously damage a single warrior. Warlord is last as he tends to hang out in the back (so it’s hard to quickly and effectively gang on him) and his threat lies mostly in supporting others – it drops quickly as the enemy numbers are thinned (unless he rolled the 2h axe as his weapon, but there are solutions for that further on).
    If you go full-crossbow setup you can TRY to bring down warlord with shooting, but only after berserkers and axes are down.

    2. Use 6 tough and shielded “tanks” – orcs hit hard, but their melee skill isn’t too high. If you deprive them of axes (and thus shield-destroying capability, they have a really hard time hitting dedicated defensive bros, and those few times they do it doesn’t really hurt so much (by dedicated defensive I mean heavy armor, giod shield, decent melee def stat, Steel Brow, Battle Forged and Underdog)

    3. Control units movement and positioning – in context of orcs that mostly means Footwork on all your archers so that you turn Warriors’ signature “push” skill against them – as they squeeze themselves into your line they become surrounded by melee bros while the rangers can move away unharmed.
    Second piece of the puzzle: nets, nets everywhere. Give them to everyone (especially if they have Quick Hands) and use whenever you need to immobilize a dangerous target that you cannot kill quickly. Take care to check your AP before usage as to not end up with a shieldless bro next to a heavy-hitter – a potentially deadly mistake. Nets are and absolute godsend against a 2h axe-wielding warlord who can potentially wreck most of your company by himself – keep him immobilized and cut down to size with massed missiles and reach 2h weapons before engaging.
    Lastly, there are dogs – good for slowing enemy progress towards your lines and suckering AI into leaving your bros alone (it tends to attack the squisher targets first – dogs are always squisher than your bros, even the rangers) – a good “panic button” if you screwed up and your archer is about to get a face full of battleaxe. Just drop little Pluto next to the orc and he will happily butcher it first, buying you some time.
    Be aware that when the dogs inevitably bite the dust it can and WILL improve orcish morale – so use them sparingly.

    4. Use the right tools for the job – forget spears, they’ll break themselves before they chip away all that armor. Bring hammers AND axes – break armor first, chop the delicious green flesh to ribbons next. You wanna focus-fire each warrior and go all-out on him, don’t spread yourself too thin trying to kill 3 or 4 at once.
    After they’re done sniping soft targets rangers should switch to billhooks (or at least longaxes) and join the merry club of meatchoppers (unless they’re Fearsome archers as a high-volume of morale-breaking shots might actually outweight the usefulness if added damage).
    If you feel really ballsy – or lucked out on backgrounds and talents and ended up with a couple of REALLY high melee skill guys – you can just say “screw your heavy armor” and give everyone a dagger – Puncture is a fickle mistress, though, so your mileage may vary.

    5. Play dirty, use every trick. Fearsome on ALL brothers? Even with Warlord screaming his lungs out Warriors will be pissing their pants when you’ve killed soft targets and they get focused. Speaking of morale, get as many of your bros as possible to Euphoric mood before the battle, as Confident is quite OP with lvl 11 mercs. Poisoned arrows? Oh yeah. Overwhelm? Even your “tanks” attack before the Warriors, who will have hard time hitting the wide side of a barn with a couple stacks. The list goes on… Go all-out on one-use-only consumables, you were hogging them so exactly for this fight.

    I’m sure others will help as well, but with just the above you should be able to do really well against the green oafs. Happy hunting!

    Avatar photoBouncedasaChild

    Well that was a lot!

    But thank you! Those where some very good tips and i see now that my endgame has been lacking. I’ve thrown away every net ive ever seen, and never use dogs. But i see now that the strat is to throw in everything and everyone thats dispensable and use every advantage you can get in one of these really hard endfights.

    2 questions tho,..

    First, about bowmen/xbowmen i trained four of those guys, but honestly right up to this fight feelt the need for them really kinda vanished late game. They became a “win more” play, since light armored troops never posed a problem anyway and their positions could be used better by some trained and dedicated pole guys. But when you face litteraly the double amount of troops you kinde start seeing the need in dropping enemies fast before they reach you. Do you really feel your game improves with so many of them? And what armor do you use for them so they dont instantly eat it when they switch to axes.

    Secoundly, about spears. I hate them, so good early game, such a disappointment late game, i still use four or two, since i feel that pikewall, while doing NO damage to armored enemies, creates very good artificial bottle necks for the enemie to go directly to my twohanders, Would you still prioritise dmg over rude crowd control?

    on side note: love overwhelm and that last perk for 50% less damage,

    Avatar photohruza

    There are fights you shouldn’t fight even in the late game.

    That said…
    You can lead enemy group to a really tough camp (or group), to help you with the fight -let two enemy groups thin each other. You have to be however sure that two are hostile to each other. During crisis goblins and orcs are allies as are zombies (including nachzehrers) and skeletons. To have enemy spawn in the actual fight, you first go to the enemy camp location with other enemy group following you. Stay on the top of the camp until enemy following closes, then right before he can attack you, click to attack enemy camp. If you do it right, those that follow you will spawn in the fight too. Once on the battle map, retreat safe distance and let two enemies fight each other, then finish those that remain.

    Don’t ever bring enemy with high initiative and AP to such fight, they will reach your line before you have a chance to back out and you will end up fighting both groups yourself. Once I led group of direwolves in to the fight with orcs. I ended up with one brother dead and hat to retreat.

    Also don’t lead too weak enemy in to the fight with strong enemy. Stronger will kill the weaker group without getting much damage and will get boost in morale for doing so, making them only much tougher.

    Avatar photohruza

    To add what was already said by others: To fight large number of orc warriors you need two things to begin with:

    -Good brothers. Not just 11 level brothers but good 11 level brothers. You need brothers with 80+ attack and 20+ melee defense at last. More the better.

    -Really good armor. 200 armor will not do, you need 300 armors. For this you of course need brothers with high stamina, so back to first point.

    Once you have that-
    Few good shields. Along with tanky brothers with shield mastery and high melee defense (and underdog). You want these to tie up as many of enemy as possible while your polearms and 2H concentrates on one or two at the time. They have to be able to stand 3-5 turns against 2-3 orc warriors without getting serious damage.

    Don’t bring too many spears. Spears don’t do enough damage for this kind of fight. At most 2 dedicated tanks on the flanks who will help prevent enemy from overwhelming your flanks. Just don’t count on them to hold flanks indefinitely, expect them to just buy you time.

    2H warhamers. Having 2 good brothers with 2H warhamers gang on the single orc warrior will wreak his armor in just one turn, leaving him open to polearms and axes. While 1H hammers looks good on paper against orc warriors, I did not found them to be very useful in reality. Their base damage is just too insufficient to deal with orc armor.

    Ranged units are useful to thin berserks and young orcs before they reach your line, but are almost useless against warriors. If you bring ranged in to the battle, they should be hybrids which can switch to polearms and long axes once orc warriors get close.

    Some useful perks to have are:

    Overwhelm -especially on the 1H tanks. Orc warriors have low initiative and overwhelm works well to lower their chance to inflict damage. This perk also work well against undead, they too tend to have low initiative (you have to act before enemy you’re attacking in the current turn for overwhelm to work).

    Fearsome -orcs doesn’t have high resolve and making them panic is one of the easiest ways to fight. Unfortunately this perk doesn’t work at all against undead so think before taking it.

    Avatar photoNamespace

    My approach is just brute force. 3 Greatswords, 2 Greathammers in a staggered formation with 1 tile space between the guys to allow them to fling their weapons freely. My spearhead would be the two Greathammers who should have around 30+ melee defense, reach advantage and 300/300 armor. 2x shatter should be enough to strip 3 warriors of their armor (provided you hit them ofc). The Greathammers get supported by the Greatsworders using split or swing.

    Bring at least 1 sargeant to counter the Warlord’s roar. At the very least 2-3 ranged troops to deal with berserkers and young. If you take spears, make sure to put them on the flanks to protect your archers from flanking berserkers until they can kill them. Also give them a Hammer in their bag should a warrior make it there. For archers, I would strongly suggest you keep them a few tiles away from the battlefield so the warriors don’t get any stupid ideas and try to break your formation. It is a bit difficult but you can predict when an Orc will go for the break through and after your backline.

    Sure, Bows are not that great against armor but if you get a decent famed one it will look a whole lot different and switching to polearms is not really necessary imo. I really don’t like how close you have to get with them. Yes, I might get off a few hits but Orc Warriors will definitely go and break my formation.

    Avatar photoWanderer

    A few things to note that should help wear down Warrior armor:

    You use the young/berserkers as Berserk triggers. Basically, weaken, but don’t kill them with anybody other than your two-handers. This allows your two-handers to get two shatters or swing/splits in one turn, which with a legendary two-handed hammer or greatsword, will evaporate warrior armor, along the 25% damage buff for Killing Spree.

    Frontliners ideally would be in Coat of Plates, or an equivalent legendary. With the bleed weapons they have, getting any bleed is likely to start killing your frontliners.

    If you don’t have the Shield Wall perk on a specific frontliner with a shield, bring a spare shield. Shields will get broken eventually if you have to deal with at least 10 warriors.

    Lastly, something I noticed just recently, which may be because of the Bullseye perk, but you can use bows/crossbows in 2 hex range with no cover penalties.

    Avatar photoEdenGenesis

    If you can’t face an army of 24 orcs, it’s because man player voted to reduce the number of mercenary to only 10 or 12… which is a total non sense… I wish we could get as many mercenary as we need… a 24 25 team size would be great in order to face a big army.

    'Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.'

    Avatar photohruza

    If you can’t face an army of 24 orcs, it’s because man player voted to reduce the number of mercenary to only 10 or 12…

    There is no or. 12. That’s number of brothers you can have at the start of the battle. You can have 21 in total. You can recruit 20 and it can increase to 21 with events.

    which is a total non sense… I wish we could get as many mercenary as we need… a 24 25 team size would be great in order to face a big army.

    There are hardware limits on how many brothers you can have. True, that limit is much higher then 12, but limit no less. Having limit also makes sense because managing too many would simply be tedious. Large armies of orcs are there to give player challenge, especially late game. Increasing limit of your brothers to 25 would require increasing size of orc armies to 100. Every turn in such battle would take forever. Not to mention need for larger battle maps.

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