Topic: Some thoughts about initiative figure


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    Avatar photoblackteapie

    In the current version, Initiative may be the most useless attributes for a mercenary. It may help the mercenaries to attack before their opponent. But their opponents still have a chance to fight back within the same round. Hence, the initiative figure have a very little chance to change the tide of battle.
    My point is that we may give two or three units whose initiative figures are the top 2 or 3 on the field one more chance to attack at the end of every round.

    Avatar photoRusBear

    initiative – one of key factor nimble build, which in the conditions of the game mechanics too so op, if it will have even and more attacks per round – we get a completely unbalanced imba garbage

    Avatar photoblackteapie

    That’s why I give no more than 3 people having two attacks per round.

    Avatar photoblackteapie

    And, Without giving some merc one more chance for attack, the initiative attribute is useless.

    Avatar photoMike

    It is far from useless, it’s just not as vital as some others, nor does it provide a linear benefit akin to melee or ranged skill – it really depends on the equipment and role of a character. While lightly-armored characters can consistently go first with some investment frontliners with heavy gear will benefit less, and – more importantly – they have higher priorities.

    the initiative figure have a very little chance to change the tide of battle

    Me and my archers/crossbowmen respectfully disagree. Being able to quickly snipe key targets (enemy crossbowmen, necromancers, shamans) before they can act can dictate the flow from turn one. As can breaking enemy’s morale even before they reach melee. Are they already in melee? Even if you can’t kill them outright it’s sure nice to stun or injure a heavy-hitter before he gets a swing at your bros.
    Speaking of morale, if some of your brothers get routed you better hope that your captain can act first and rally them before they get themselves chopped.

    I could go on, but I think I’ve made my point.

    If you’d like a good turn-based tactical combat where you can overwhelm your enemies with speed matrix-style I recommend Fallout 1 & 2, it’s quite easy to pull there.

    Avatar photoblackteapie

    We can choose only 3 attributes to upgrade every level up. If you want to increase the figure on initiative, you need to sacrifice some figure of other attributes like HP, damages or stamina. And it would need a large figure of initiative to reach at the first one of every turn. Or you need hire a high initiative merc at the first place.
    Initiative is not completely useless, but it won’t compare to other attributes. So, this means most of the players won’t care about that attribute.

    Avatar photoMike

    First, as long as you have more than one attribute to your character, one of them is going to be less important than others. It’s not a design flaw to be corrected, it’s a simple fact.

    Secondly, there are always different playstyles just as there are always minmaxers who accept only the optimal solutions – trying to cater to them is a fool’s errand as it damages the experience for others who do not share their approach and those people are never fully satisfied anyway.

    I’m perfectly happy with specializing my characters and using bad “rolls” on my preferred attributes to pump secondary ones – got a +1 to fatigue this level? Fine, I’ll put +3 to initiative or +2 to ranged defense. My archer can’t take an orc axe to the face but that’s why I have others who can do it in his stead.

    I dare say there are other players who do not have a cookie-cutter build focusing on 3 most “valuable” attributes but prefer to experiment and work around limitations instead of throwing more points at them. Finding ways to efficiently use the seemingly underpowered stats is part of the fun.


    it would need a large figure of initiative to reach at the first one of every turn. Or you need hire a high initiative merc at the first place

    when you want a guy who can efficiently wear heavy armor, you look for a prospect with high starting stamina. Seems only logical it’s the same when you want a quick character, I see no problem here. Also, you don’t really need that high of a point investment, what matter more is not overburdening your character with heavy gear. I understand that some would find it appealing to have plate armor-clad fighters who are at the same nimble, but it isn’t how the game;s supposed to work. At all.

    Avatar photoblackteapie

    You increase initiative in the cost of other more important attributes, which means that merc may be low on HP or melee defence. And you only have 9 action points every turn, no matter how high initiative your mercs have. Therefore, it will be very hard to do hit&run tactic.
    By the way, the hostile units like necromancer and crossbower are always deep behind the frontline, so you need to move your archer forward to hit them. Hence you may have risk to expose your low HP archers infront of enemy’s heavy infantry and ranged attacks.

    Avatar photoKlique

    Food for thought,
    a mechanic wherein a defender that evades an attack due to his defence skill takes a penalty to offence skill, -8%, stacks 3 times (totally arbitrary numbers), reset at end of turn.

    Thematically, 2 combatants, one seizing the initiative and go on the offensive while the defender is to busy defending to strike back until he can steal the initiative, and the tables turn.

    Gameplaywise, would give initiative its own role as a stat for “locking down” targets in prolonged combat, best defence is a good offence if you will. Without making it a two-way street, the quicker guy would have already made his moves when he recieves any attacks back, and any stacks would be gone for his following turn. Enhancing the feeling of acting first on a turn-by-turn basis, rather than taking the first swing of the battle, then trading them. Also adding a tactical choice, If you’re the slower guy, do you want to desperately flail back while off balance or wait for your opponent to tire himself out.

    Even if you still wouldn’t put any points in INI, the system would still somewhat shift the balance of power away from heavy armor.

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