Topic: [suggestion] Shop work hours, time until inventory replenishes and etc

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  • #7062
    Danubian
    Participant

    One thing that annoys me quite a bit is the fact that shops seem to have work hours.

    Ummm. Lets say i walk into a castle. And i want to go to the armory – nope the armory is closed during the night.

    Its a castle. The whole purpose of a castle IS to provide an armory 24/7. I should be able to trade with military outposts at any time during the day or night, thats military 101. Heck, i would argue that all shops should be opened 24/7, if not for reason sake, then simply for utility sake. Every second i am in game costs me, the time ticks, and i need to pay my bros. If you make me wait for in game hours just for the shop to open so i can dump my full inventory and go back killing stuff, im not going to be happy as a play.

    a.) make shops open 24/7
    b.) create a part of interface that shows how much longer until shop is opened

    So you walk into a castle, open the shop, and purchase the available Noble Sword and Warhammer. Cool. But i want 6 more. Derp, i cant have them because there are none left and i have no clue when i can come back and have more.

    c.) create a part of interface that shows how much time i need to wait for the shop inventory to refresh
    d.) allow me to place personal orders to the blacksmith “make me 6 noble swords, heres moneyz” “sure brah come back im 77 hours and they will be done” “brilliant, bye” “thank you, come again”.

    #7073
    Meeky
    Participant

    c.) create a part of interface that shows how much time i need to wait for the shop inventory to refresh
    d.) allow me to place personal orders to the blacksmith “make me 6 noble swords, heres moneyz” “sure brah come back im 77 hours and they will be done” “brilliant, bye” “thank you, come again”.

    I agree with this for sure. Eventually, these should both be in the game… And I think they will be, eventually. Fingers crossed.

    DEFINITELY can’t wait until the day when I can order items ahead of time from a blacksmith. There’ve been so many times when I JUST wanted some pikes, and nobody was selling pikes, or I JUST wanted some extra tools, but the smithies weren’t selling any tools.

    I’d also love it if you could have the blacksmith repair gear for you. Pay them, give them the gear, come back soon and get your equipment back.

    Its a castle. The whole purpose of a castle IS to provide an armory 24/7. I should be able to trade with military outposts at any time during the day or night, thats military 101. Heck, i would argue that all shops should be opened 24/7, if not for reason sake, then simply for utility sake.

    I’ll argue against this, though.

    The purpose of a castle is to provide a bastion from which the noble that owns the place can manage the lands around him and perform his duty as protector of the people he lords over. A castle exists because it is integral to the feudal system: the serfs owe fealty to the lord, the lord owes fealty to the king, and thus the lord has to ensure that the peasants do well and pay their taxes and aren’t dying off en-masse or else he’s not performing his duty to the king. THAT is why a castle exists.

    The armory is open 24/7… for the people that work at the castle. We, however, are just mercenaries. We’re scum to the noble and the people that work for him. They can sell excess gear to us at high prices, and they will, but only when it’s convenient for them. They certainly don’t want us tromping about the castle at night snatching weapons.

    If we’re talking about forts instead of castles, the same argument applies. We’re still scum, and the fort is probably run by people who don’t care for our type. They don’t mind selling us things, but only in daylight when all the guards are awake and we can be watched intently. Again, a bunch of hooligans wandering the wilds looking for mercenary work aren’t the sort of people royal officials want around at night.

    #7076
    Danubian
    Participant

    I’ll argue against this, though.

    The purpose of a castle is to provide a bastion from which the noble that owns the place can manage the lands around him and perform his duty as protector of the people he lords over. A castle exists because it is integral to the feudal system: the serfs owe fealty to the lord, the lord owes fealty to the king, and thus the lord has to ensure that the peasants do well and pay their taxes and aren’t dying off en-masse or else he’s not performing his duty to the king. THAT is why a castle exists.

    The armory is open 24/7… for the people that work at the castle. We, however, are just mercenaries. We’re scum to the noble and the people that work for him. They can sell excess gear to us at high prices, and they will, but only when it’s convenient for them. They certainly don’t want us tromping about the castle at night snatching weapons.

    If we’re talking about forts instead of castles, the same argument applies. We’re still scum, and the fort is probably run by people who don’t care for our type. They don’t mind selling us things, but only in daylight when all the guards are awake and we can be watched intently. Again, a bunch of hooligans wandering the wilds looking for mercenary work aren’t the sort of people royal officials want around at night.

    A world that has undead and orcs has little to do with our world and history. With that said im watching that dev video which shows that castles spawn military faction groups that protect the caravans. So the interest of the castle in game is to protect civilians. Since we as player are enemies to all enemies of human civilians (undead, bandits, orcs and wild animals) therefor castles should be friendly to us (regardless of the fact that human lords might not like mercenary bands going around). Enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    But lets put historicity aside, and lets use common sense and gameplay. Does the fact that shops are closed bring anything to the game? Does it provide you with some meaningful choice or additional gameplay? The way i see it, it doesnt. It is simply and merely an inconvenience. I come with a full inventory that i need to sell before i can go back and kill more stuff (the fun part of the game), and i cant because i need to wait. Waiting is a waste time that costs me money. So whats the point gameplay wise, other than to frustrate me? Just because something makes sense in real life (shop owners go to sleep) doesnt mean its good for actual game.

    #7079
    Meeky
    Participant

    I think the best solution would be to allow players to camp out in towns at increased speeds and get some sort of benefit for doing so – such as increased morale.

    So, you get to a keep or a village or city. The store is closed because it’s night time. No matter: pay a handful of coins, get your men a room for the remainder of the night, and enjoy a small morale boost come the morning. You then go to the store the next morning because the night hours fly by quickly.

    And there are some meaningful choices that come of having a night phase in which stores are closed. Namely: it pushes me to, perhaps, keep moving on to another town to resupply somewhere else. Rather than staying at this castle, I may decide to travel to the next village and see who I can hire or what jobs I can take. Sure, the equipment won’t be the same as at the location I’m presently at, but it pushes me to see the next place, check up on how other villages are faring, etc., because I’d rather know what’s going on around me rather than wait in one place. Other players may prefer to wait in one place, however.

    The other way it factors in? You could be getting chased by monsters. It’s night time, your equipment is badly damaged, you run up to a keep… and they’re not going to sell you weapons and armor because it’s night time. Now you need to keep running until the undead break off to attack someone else or until you find a location that has the equipment you need.

    It also becomes a factor when you’re traveling. If you decide to keep exploring one more week despite being low on food, you might find yourself needing to get supplies at the nearby town… only it’s night time. So, you’re encouraged not to overextend when exploring, but to always be well supplied with food and tools and medicine (which, later in the game, isn’t that hard to do).

    Again, I think this will feel much more natural and work much better as soon as we can sleep in inns. It makes waiting not only easier, but also beneficial.

    Since we as player are enemies to all enemies of human civilians (undead, bandits, orcs and wild animals) therefor castles should be friendly to us (regardless of the fact that human lords might not like mercenary bands going around). Enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    Not so simple. You could be bandits in disguise. You’re a band of dudes that wanders around the countryside killing things for money. Are they sure you can be trusted?

    Plus, the world is definitely steeped in medieval rhetoric. It has nobles and knights and commoners. You’re leading a ragtag bunch of commoners that get paid really well to kill people, and you don’t exactly pay much respect to the nobility and knights by doing so. Your very existence is kind of an insult to them: it means they’re not doing a good enough job protecting people, so you get paid to do their job for them.

    So, you get paid better than soldiers (who hate you for that), you’re doing the work that noble leaders should be doing (so they hate you for that), you’re possibly robbers (so that’s hate-worthy too), and the typical band of Battle Brothers often includes some pariahs of society such as criminals, bastards, raiders, and hedge knights (all of whom are hated).

    So, yeah: you’re fighting the same guy these guys are. But nobody really likes you, and nobody’s sure if you can be trusted. You’re not going to march into a castle at night and buy weapons. You gotta wait ’til daytime, when honest folk do business.

    #7083
    Danubian
    Participant

    Sorry i respectfully disagree with your description of how shops being closed at night brings anything meaningful to the game. To me its still just an annoyance as it denies a pretty basic function/service just because.

    Maybe if they allowed us to store items in towns the problem would diminish (i can always come back and sell stuff later).

    #7087
    Meeky
    Participant

    Maybe if they allowed us to store items in towns the problem would diminish (i can always come back and sell stuff later).

    That’s actually a really neat idea I didn’t think of before. A storehouse for your equipment? Makes sense. You’d probably have to rent it, but that’s not a bad idea.

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