Topic: Super Awesome Ninja Goblin Fun Time!

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  • #6668
    Zinistar
    Participant

    Goblins… yes I know this subject was probably been brought up before, but I have a serious beef with whoever developed these little monsters. I am just going to break down how ridiculous these guys are without even hacking the game for stats. On a scale of 1-5.

    Initiative 5: Complete domination in this regard. Expect to get shot “at least” 3 times and poisoned to boot.

    Ranged Accuracy 5: These guy do not miss. Even when you employ a sound tactic, such as shield wall, they will still hit their mark 50% of the time. Also their bows can go 8 squares?! With this accuracy and poison, you are just looking for blood.

    Melee Accuracy 5: Who knew that goblins were such ninjas that they make better sword masters then your most trained warrior. Usually putting your brothers down like dogs with seemingly little to no effort. It really is saddening that no matter what gear you have, these guys don’t care bc they will ignore it and rarely miss even with -20%!

    Melee Defense 5: Okay so these guy are ranged and melee masters… certainly they do not have reflexes that would make a werewolf cry? Nope they do, these guys are almost impossible to hit in melee, you are usually staring at a 50% or below when attacking.

    Ranged Defense 5: Shoot them? Um no, not really an option… it really is ridiculous to even suggest.

    Endurance 3: Overall Endurance, being their survivability when actually being hit, is equal to if not greater that your battle brothers. I’ve seen a goblin take a beating and continue slaughtering. Just like anything else, on occasion they will go down in one hit. This is just more surprising for goblins being that a hit scored is such a huge accomplishment.

    Moral 3: Same as above they, are not particularly afraid of dying.

    Fatigue 3: They don’t seem to have a problem here either.

    Equipment 5: They have the perfect killing utensils and decent armor, with bleeding and poison to boot.

    Tactics 5: Kudos to the developer for having a smart AI, all I can say is my most Armored brother always seemed to get poisoned first.

    So out of a possible 50 points, possible goblins receive 44… that is top tier creature material

    I know sometimes a developer wants their creations to be feared and effective, but these guys are not within reason. I have only progressed in a (self-imposed Iron Man) by avoiding them completely and flat refusing to fight them.

    If I am getting ambushed by goblins ambushers of the second caravan mission then there is an issue. There is literally no reasonable or effective way to engage them. Even fight them with a militia at my back is a gamble. These guys are like meat grinders. The only way to be “victorious” if to throw enough bodies into them most of them dying in the process. That is a blood bath that is unsustainable. Right now it is better to be a coward than to even dare fight a pack of goblins, even at low levels.

    Yes I know “fight them at night” that doesn’t take away their uncanny ability to murder you in melee. I recently got into a fight with ambushers, and with a pack of 5 werewolfs at the same. Even when all but one werewolf went at them, they still came out smelling like roses, to massacre my lowly company. How dare I try to fight them.

    #6671
    RusBearRusBear
    Participant

    You are absolutely right. Even weak goblins – a deadly danger for the party level 1-5. A shot from a crossbow overseer – a 1- shot circulated to all who are not health above 60 hp and not wearing armor more than 100. But I played in the new patch more than 300 days of play different teams, and came to the conclusion that in fact the most dangerous enemy is 10-12 Orc Warriors. Top armor and weapons allow you to easily straightened with goblins- arbalester 11 level is likely to kill a goblin with a single shot and hit him in spite of the overcharge protection of these small creatures. but Orc Warrior in New patche- special enemy – this game is simply no such armor and shields to withstand their onslaught, and no such weapons to allow you to kill them earlier than you run out of fatigue. limit the level of 11 and this +2 to melеe atack and def just will not let you bring up such brothers- who could effectively defend themselves and inflict damage on them.

    #6672
    icemelonicemelon
    Participant

    I agree with Rus Bear, goblins at first are deadly, but when you get better equipment and more experencied brothers, goblins are still dangerous but beatable. But OMG try to fight 3 o 4 orc warrios and one warlord at once, they are like rocks, you can’t damage them; you can’t stand an orc onslaught, they will crush you, not only because they are powerful and deadly, but also with their battle cry, your soldiers start to cry like little kiddos.

    #6673
    Gabbek
    Participant

    Goblins are very tricky early on, but shield wall and some range defense does the trick very well. Crossbow is much better than bows against them – you get +20% chance to hit, as well as spears (especially early on) are very effective because you will find it easier to hit them. You can fight them easily at night – their archers are much less effective, so all you need is decent shield wall and some reach (range 2) weapons for your success. I’m playing on deadly self-imposed ironman difficulty and I find them very fun & challenging, especially early on – you’ll probably lose some fresh meat, but you should do fine! They wear you out more than they kill you, in my opinion. Usually the recovery time due to poison and all the damage they inflict takes long time. Overall I would rate them highly, but in my opinion they are not as scary as early orc warriors / orc warlord.

    #6675
    HansHans
    Participant

    Goblins are truly strong, no doubt.

    Yesterday, I start a new game to show game to my friend.
    I have low lvl group of 6 guy and doing 2. task, some caravan guarding.

    Near final village 6 goblins(3 skirmishers 3 ambushers) ambushed me…

    So militia from village, caravan hands and guards and my guys… 30 vs 6
    Blood bath…
    14 men died, countless men run away,
    only 4 goblins died, 2 ambushers retreat…

    And lesson from it… 6 goblins are able conquer village ;)

    #6676
    Squibie
    Participant

    I find goblins weakest of all races. And i play deadly, ironman mode. People are just lazy and don’t change equipment and tactics according to what type of enemy is encountered. For goblins u need big shields on everyone, preferably feral or kite shields. All archers must change weapon to bow because of the extra range needed to snipe ambushers. Also dogs, as many as you can find. Just focus everything on ambushers, without breaking defensive line. Cuz thats when the skirmishers enter. 37 days in without save scumming. Eating goblins like bananas. Just beaten army of them supported by shaman without losing one guy. Please, if game is too hard, choose easier difficulty. Not cry on forums and try to destroy fun for me. Or other people who like tactics.

    Edit: Forgot to add, i always fight goblins during day because i trust my archers. Also i hate night battles. Nearly as much as trees and every other thing that obscures the grid and pieces on it. Can somebody make “stumps only” mode?

    #6679
    bengarrett1971bengarrett1971
    Participant

    Squibie’s idea of a “stumps only” graphics option in forests gets a vote from me also – the trees look great, but I’d love to be able to see the grid and pieces too.

    #6680
    Zinistar
    Participant

    I find goblins weakest of all races. And i play deadly, ironman mode.

    Ya ok sure, Goblins are weaker than Bandits… ya credibility lost.

    People are just lazy and don’t change equipment and tactics according to what type of enemy is encountered. For goblins u need big shields on everyone, preferably feral or kite shields.

    So you have enough money to buy all the needed gear and all of your guys have the luxury of having kite shields? Good for you, you encountered them mid-game. Try getting jumped early game and tell me how you do. When you are poor, you don’t have gear and you certainly don’t have an armory to choose from. If goblins are a mid-end game creature, then keep them there. Don’t blow up my early game progress with ambushers on a caravan mission.

    All archers must change weapon to bow because of the extra range needed to snipe ambushers. Also dogs, as many as you can find.

    If you are above a 10% chance to hit with a bow, you have enough levels to hold your own.Once again having dogs is a luxury. Especially if you started on deadly.

    37 days in without save scumming. Eating goblins like bananas. Just beaten army of them supported by shaman without losing one guy. Please, if game is too hard, choose easier difficulty. Not cry on forums and try to destroy fun for me. Or other people who like tactics.

    Look who wins the pompous jerk award.
    1. You are Arrogant- you got lucky if the first instance of you fighting goblins was when you had a full armory.
    2. You are Ignorant- The difficulty of the game does not change stats in any way, just starting gold.
    3. You make ASSumptions- Don’t assume I don’t like/love tactics, but having a high tier creature set destroy a low level merc group and the city they ran to is ridiculous for any game.
    3. A breakdown is not “crying”, its say “hey do something about the goblins at low levels.”

    Edit: Forgot to add, i always fight goblins during day because i trust my archers.

    This, this is what really destroys any credibility you have and tells me you are trolling. I mean seriously, I could care less if they “nerf” the goblins, I just don’t want an enemy I have no chance of beating on the map within 1 hour of starting.

    #6681
    RusBearRusBear
    Participant

    That’s why even 5 years ago, I just ceases to argue with people on the Internet :) They have the audacity to say things sometimes positiveness is so absurd that so ashamed of them. While themselves devs in let’s play passing on utube officially declared the goblins as an enemy for the later stages of the game and is not highly advised players to fight them until your group of mercenaries do not get enough equipment and experience. if your a novice mercenary farmer has 0 basic protection it ranged attacks you can put as much as necessary to position on the hill and lifted the shield cover – archer goblins drove his 2 arrows in his head from a distance of 8 cells…

    #6683
    Squibie
    Participant

    Ya ok sure, Goblins are weaker than Bandits… ya credibility lost.

    Bandit thugs are just peasants, but they belong to wide race known as human.

    So you have enough money to buy all the needed gear and all of your guys have the luxury of having kite shields? Good for you, you encountered them mid-game. Try getting jumped early game and tell me how you do. When you are poor, you don’t have gear and you certainly don’t have an armory to choose from. If goblins are a mid-end game creature, then keep them there. Don’t blow up my early game progress with ambushers on a caravan mission.

    Thats why u have feral shields. Easy to get your hands on. Dont even tell me that u got defeated on caravan mission:DD These are the easiest u know.

    If you are above a 10% chance to hit with a bow, you have enough levels to hold your own.Once again having dogs is a luxury. Especially if you started on deadly.

    Now i feel that once any of your brothers is dead, you just surrender. You gave got to try man.

    Look who wins the pompous jerk award.
    1. You are Arrogant- you got lucky if the first instance of you fighting goblins was when you had a full armory.
    2. You are Ignorant- The difficulty of the game does not change stats in any way, just starting gold.
    3. You make ASSumptions- Don’t assume I don’t like/love tactics, but having a high tier creature set destroy a low level merc group and the city they ran to is ridiculous for any game.
    3. A breakdown is not “crying”, its say “hey do something about the goblins at low levels.”

    I had 2 bands of goblins on caravan missions, didnt have feral shields nor dogs. But still. It was caravan mission.

    This, this is what really destroys any credibility you have and tells me you are trolling. I mean seriously, I could care less if they “nerf” the goblins, I just don’t want an enemy I have no chance of beating on the map within 1 hour of starting.

    You just “dont want”? Nice. My 3 years old son, “dont want” to brush his teeth. Im not gonna even comment on all these insults. Cuz clearly you are underage.

    #6684
    Zinistar
    Participant

    You are the trolliest of trolls sir. Instead of offering any kind of logical argument you resort to childlike taunts and baiting. You have not offered a speck of new information just more ASSumptions and nonsense. Try to get a life bud, ill get back to owning my business and being a productive member of society.

    #6685
    Squibie
    Participant

    Whatever, just remember about difficulty slider.

    #6693
    Arekonator
    Participant

    I highly encourage you to actually check the ingame stats so you can see how much of an overstatement your “ratings” are.
    Yes, they are not early game enemies. But still, if you pick your fights carefuly, you can tackle smaller groups relatively soon.
    Their melee defense is certainly above average, but not by any huge margin. Nothing a simple spears cant fix and they are easy to come by.
    If you use them and properly utilize the overwhelm mechanic, you should hit them quite often. And they are fragile, once you manage to land few hits, they go down fast. (Goblin skirmishers got only 45 hp and they are the toughest regular unit)
    I actually laughed at the ranged defence entry. Why? because out-goblin the goblins is likely your best bet (provided you got at least chain mail on your frontliners). Hunting bows are superior to goblin ones, and standing behind shieldwall gives your archers edge over the goblin ones, if you manage to get some height advantage, even better. Couple of javelins on your tanks and perhaps crossbow or two in second line can pick off skirmishers quite nicely. Due to fragile nature of the goblins, any odd headshot you manage to score is almost guaranteed kill and regular hits do plenty of damage anyway.
    From my observation, their melee attacks dont hit out of ordinary what would one expect, compared to other enemies. And once you got some basic mail, they dont even hit that hard, since except crossbows, all their weaponry is inferior to what you can get. (Though of course its nice if you can get your hands on them early, since they are better than basic gear). I might agree that goblin archers melee capabilities could be toned down slightly.
    To their curved knives of death.. they are just your plain old sax knife. They of course have that dreaded attack that can pierce through armor. If you got any decent shields (better than bucklers) they are not that scary. It got penalty to hit and they can try it two, maybe three times before they get fatigued. Sure they can score lucky kill once in a while, but thats just the way of the game. And in whole goblin arsenal, there is not a single weapon that can bypass or destroy shields, so they have hard time dealing with those.
    Think, adapt and pick your fights. As far as i know, goblins were specificaly made to “break the meta” and they are doing that just fine.

    #6708
    Meeky
    Participant

    Okay, goblins are tough, but they’re not THAT bad. They’re a danger in the early game, sure, and you can lose some guys to them in the late game if you’re really unlucky, but you generally shouldn’t have any trouble defeating them if you can make it to the late game.

    I’ll be assuming in this post, however, that you’re fighting them in the early game.

    Goblins have a high defense, sure – but their HP is horrible. A stray breeze knocks them dead. They also don’t deal very much damage save for the Overseers, and the wolf-riders are honestly a laughable threat. Goblin melee damage is awful.

    The main dangers when fighting goblins are:

    1) The archers, and…
    2) The shamans.

    Given that, you should equip yourself differently when going up against Goblins. There are a few things you can do to increase your chances of winning.

    First: Get Kite Shields or Feral Shields; those will help you deal with their ranged attacks. Don’t worry about wasting your movement points putting up a shield wall, though; chances are you’ll need those movement points.

    Second: When you start the battle, count how many archers they have. If they’re got a lot of them, they’re going to be your priority to kill… and the best way to do so is to back up. I know that sounds weird, but that forces the archers to step forward to shoot at you, and it lets you reposition and find better vantage points from which to fight. Indeed, doing this seems to make the pikemen lurk along the sides or even behind the archers, making it easier for you to rush forward and deal with them (or to rush forward and release the hounds).

    Third: Speaking of releasing the hounds, dogs are great. 2-3 cheap dogs released at a line of exposed archers will keep them from firing arrows for a turn or two, and should give you time to engage yourself. Is it costly? A little. I’d argue it’s worth it.

    Fourth: Your biggest problem arises when there’s a shaman in their ranks. That shaman can immobilize several guys at once, so if you fight one, stay spread out. Keep a loose formation until you can engage.

    And finally: If you lose a battle where you have 30 guys vs. their 6 and you lose, either the RNG hates you or you really need to rethink how you play this game.

    Goblins aren’t unstoppable. They’re rough, and they force you to play the game differently than you might play against other enemies. Indeed, whenever we can finally have more than 12 guys in our army (I assume we’ll eventually have reserves), I’m probably going to make a few Anti-Goblin tanks with high ranged defense and kite shields. Until then, you just need to fight them carefully, use dogs as distractions, or else throw human meatshields you don’t care about forward as bait. Step back, let them expose their archers, and then go for the kill.

    They’re way easier for me to fight than an army of Vampires, Fallen Heroes and Necromancers, I’ll tell you that.

    #6715
    Squibie
    Participant

    I got bashed so hard by the OP, but it seems i had some credibility after all. :P Thx to devs for making such a wonderful game. And if you have any ideas how to make it even harder. Please, dont feel restrained by guys like OP.

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