Topic: Undead Legions are still too overpowered.

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    Avatar photoPhalanthir

    I have written in one of the last topics about the problem of undead legions are still too overpowered.
    I got some great advices from you so first of all thank you. I am using hammer to fastly destroy their armor, and reach their low hp, and vs pikeman I use 2 -2 maceman on the sides to get behind them, and stun pikemans. And of course i always use shields and shield wall, and heavy armor cuz undead has low initative (anyway that doesnt help much, cuz their spear artillery rape your bros). And I use 3 spiked impaler to effectively change their position ( push out the 2nd lane speamren etc) and clear their armor. My brothers are late game with good perks lvl 12-17 so they are good with nearly the highest armors. With that team i can beat orc warbosses and other undead and goblins humans so everything without any loss.
    BUT! Undead legions u know no matter which tactic i use I simply lose man. (You can say that is what game about etc, and its the way.. It is simply unacceptable, why? – cuz I can beat any other faction) and it is ridiculus u lose man who was with u since the game begins.. (nearly). When they are 14-15 I can beat that much, but if they are 18 and escpecially with some honour guards or with an ancient priest omg they kill all of us and not simply kill us they sh*t on my face.
    ( That point u will say, don’t get a quest like that if u cant make it. 1. so there are quests there are impossible and there are simply ingame but u could never make it, so there is a part of that game wich simply pointless its like a dungeon in world of warcraft that is impossible to make with any level… sorry to say that i know u want to give challange but its pointless.. Moreover the second game anding for me was undead wants to destroy the world ( first was orc ending that was quite fun) and i get quests to protect a city, and those are like nightmares, i have no time to heal and repair, they are overwhelming, and 5 wave of enemies are somply too much. I made 2 of these quest to somehow end that “game ending” but with so much loses.
    So i simply say that if the legionaries wouldn’t use shielwall and high dmg pikes ( those pikes are better than the original ones wtf? ) they would be challanging too but not hilarious. That way I am thinking to stop play one of my favourite game. ( I am playing that since the alpha and early beta, that game is impressive and fun, a great challange, and i love it with all my heart)
    Finally, maybe if we could manage greater armies on the field not just 12 maybe it would be fine.
    Sorry if I am a bit confusing or using bad grammar.
    Thank your for your patience and understanding. I am eager what u say!

    Avatar photoArchlord

    There is a guy demanding to be able to have more than 12 bros on the field and then there is this guy:

    Avatar photomekaerwin

    Yeah, it’s kinda sad that people won’t just accept that some games require a certain level of skill to get really far. If a game can’t be won by everyone on whatever level they prefer to play games at (easy, hard) then the game is poorly balanced with highly overpowered elements. Whenever a game is truly difficult (as opposed to unbalanced), there will be lots of complainers that refuse to see the difficulty as lack of skill on the player instead of the developers. I would prefer a small following on a brilliant game than a huge mass of fans on a over simplified crowd pleaser. I’m glad the developers went that route too.

    Another thing that occurred to me is that since the game was early access, and some of the players have been playing since the beginning, it has allowed the players that chose, to increase their skill as the game was developed. This could possibly have created a feedback loop where as the good players got better, the developers took note of this and realized that the game could still be a little harder and it would be alright. When people show videos like this, it makes you realize that if the developers wanted to put an additional level of difficulty, there would still be some people with the min maxing and decision making skills to win at it. But all the rest would simply cry foul. I remember playing a difficult game that was free recently, and fell into the same trap. I was playing along as the difficulty increased and eventually got to a level where it just seemed unbeatable. The skills I had used to get me this far had worked, but there was an additional level of mastery I hadn’t even touched. I started thinking, the game is free, it’s possible this level was never even tested. I tried again ever now and then and finally it just started dawning that some counter intuitive things actually worked and on I went, until another level stumped me. It did increase my confidence in the developers though, and I didn’t feel like the game was just poorly made. Trusting the developers can really help you overcome a very difficult game because when you believe there is an answer, you’ll look harder. Unfortunately, not all developers can be trusted to finely tune their games. This one is shaking out quite well in my opinion, however. I could do without the extreme gore and some of the questionable writing, but that is purely a subjective complaint, the mechanics are solid either way.

    Avatar photoPhalanthir

    That video was amazing thanks!
    But i have jsut completed the 10% of the days he had… so with that items i would manage the same performance.. :D

    Avatar photoPhalanthir

    I said I love that game, but as before it needs some balance, I don’t said legion is completely unbeatable. I said they are more powerful than any other factions in this game, and it shouldn’t be because the game for me is about avoid that enemy, I want to fight them, but I run cuz it is easier to farm from brigands orks goblins, rather than die vs legionaries. But in undead ending of the game u can’t avoid that, so I can’t make a tactic to avoid that cuz I must fight them to finish the undead ending, or they destroy all the cities…. So the game force me at that point to lose all of my stuff what i have reached and if I want tactic I say fuck no… :) I am not a coward, I am playing all kind of strategy games since 6, I love challange I am good on online pvp strategys too. So my aim is to tell my opinion so maybe it helps the creators balance it ( if my trouble is real and it needs balance)

    Avatar photoMike

    You can say that is what game about etc, and its the way.. It is simply unacceptable

    For you. And that hardly makes it objectively true.

    It’s the N-th time that I see a topic which says the exact same thing, and that thing can be boiled down to “the game doesn’t play the way that I would like it to, so that means it’s wrong and you should change it so that I enjoy it more”.
    Well sorry but it doesn’t work that way – at least not with BB, thankfuly.

    I understand what’s going on – as the years passed the games gradually evolved to accomodate as wide a range of players as possible in order to increase their sales. It makes perfect sense, after all most of them are created in order to turn in profit for their creators. Unfortunately the easiest way of making games more accessible means, well – making them easy. Nothing wrong with that either, with various difficulty settings everyone can have their cake – most of the time. Younger players don’t even remember it being any other way and therefore take it for granted. Perfectly understandable.

    What IS wrong with the whole ordeal is that people grow so used to the “anyone can win anything – you just have to grind more exp or lower the difficulty setting” design that they refuse to accept a different approach as anything but a design flaw. And then they throw a tantrum. It is not a design flaw, it is the design philosophy behind the title.

    I am perfectly OK with casual gamers wanting their easy fun and a guaranteed “100% completion” “achievement”, I just wished they stopped forcing their views down everyone’s throat, especially when it comes to indie titles not necesarily meant to fully cater to their taste.

    Avatar photoWargasm

    I see what you did wrong. You failed (a) to loot some magical pieces of armour that provide base protection equivalent to that of a full helm and a coat of scales while imposing a meagre fatigue cost equivalent to that of a gritty low-medieval basic nasal helm and worn mail shirt (while also REGENERATING themselves EVERY TURN by the protection value of the latter pieces), so that you can still be 60% nimble (not that nimble really matters with all that armour, melee defence and magical underdog ability to simultaneously dodge attacks from every angle). You also failed (b) to use your magical equipment to single-handedly massacre horde upon horde all the way up to level 39, each time increasing melee skill, defence skills and fatigue while leaving hit points and resolve at fragile/mediocre values (after all, it doesn’t matter if you piss your magical pants and flee upon being engaged by the undead hordes or spooked by the priest, because your melee defence is so high that you’ll easily get away anyway, and you can return after your eventual rally and slaughter 3-6 of them in a single turn to trigger several positive morale checks and restore morale to steady or confident). It also doesn’t matter about miasma eating away at your hit points, because you can arrogantly walk away from melee whenever you wish, without getting hit, and even the odd freak 5% hit will impose only the faintest scratch upon your armour (probably halved by nimble, and in any case fully negated by the armour’s magical regenerating ability).

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