Topic: Will Crafting clutter the game?

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  • #2281
    Kalanar
    Participant

    I am wary of a crafting system for this game… There is great virtue in simplicity (not to suggest the game isn’t complex). Making more items available and introducing quality would be a solid move, but a whole crafting system I think would distract from the core gameplay.

    I don’t want to be chasing “3 pieces of leather” and “Orc warts” to make a “+1 cod piece.” If you must check that crafting box on your feature list, make it as hands off as possible. Be careful not to incentivize farming and hoarding.

    (Side note… I am having flash backs to when I first bought the Mount and Blade beta, an original game with a lot of heart. This is a great foundation, I wish you great success!)

    #2341
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    I share your concerns. If we implement crafting we would have to do so in a very unobstrusive way. “Farming” ressources would turn the game into a grind and take too much focus away from what we are aiming at: A mercenary company game.

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    #2386
    Buce
    Participant

    I’m also against farming resources to craft better equipment, it would ruin the game spirit.
    But I think that weapons and armours should have different quality. This quality should provide bonus -/+ 0-5 damage or -/+ 0-10 accuracy for weapons and -/+ 0-20 bonus for armours. In bigger cities equipment should have better quality and in small villages worse.

    #2402
    Trig
    Participant

    I agree with scepticism towards crafting.

    Troopers didn’t craft their own weapons and armours. Fletchers made arrows, smiths made weapons, tanners and armourers made armours, alcminists made fireball spells a.k.a. gunpowder and other burning/explosive mixes.

    Fixing and mending stuff, yes. Crafting, meh.

    Perhaps the only thing I’d support, since you have the unused amulet slot would be troopers making lucky charms, badges, other minor junk. Cut off orc ears on a string as sign of veterancy could grant a tiny morale increase, for instance. That sort of stuff…

    #2415
    screeg
    Participant

    Simply restricting the system from “Crafting” to “Upgrading”, and folding it into the role of the Blacksmith, would make it a lot simpler and less intrusive. Also use currently available equipment parts as disposable supplies.

    #2420
    drew1988west
    Participant

    I’m in two minds on this one. Currently Battle Brothers has a certain amount of things that can be done in the game. First and foremost this is a game about managing a mercenary company, but it is also an RPG, and somewhat of a realtime sandbox outside of combat.
    Currently the game plays out in this fashion (when outside of combat):

    – Players move from one village to the next to find quests and replenish supplies.
    – Companions can be hired in many varieties.
    – A number of dwellings and sites can be attacked.
    – Quests come in four varieties (find _____ or travel to _____ or raze _____ or protect the caravan)
    – Players level their Battle Brothers, equip them, and select perks.
    – Players can join or initiate battles.

    Now, this is all good, like you say simplicity is good. Theres nothing too complicated, and as of now the player is limited to these processes on the world map. But simplicity can also be a detriment, theres a fine balance that needs to be achieved I think. This game is – after all – a sandbox. Even with the addition of the overarching story, and the ‘Greater Evil’ the world of Battle Brothers will still be free roaming, and more importantly alive. Simplicity can, as a negative side effect create sameness and repetition for the player.

    The game does need more to do, in my opinion (despite loving the hell out of it at the moment). I worry that the processes we are currently limited to could become stale.

    Heres a very basic list of things I think would work (but in a non-detrimental way):

    – I think the game needs diversified settlements and a deep deep economic system. Different shops in towns, and resources/goods that could be bought and sold. I don’t really know how this could be accomplished in a purposefully way (see my last point for a possibility). But something needs to be done about the sameness of the map locations and towns. I’d like to see different shops such as blacksmiths, tailors, taverns, town halls etc.
    More quest variety – ‘Collect _______’ or ‘Slay and return the head of *insert monster* or ‘Find *insert name* and take them to *insert location’ or ‘Defend the town for ____ days’ or ‘Ambush *insert company name* and bring me the head of their leader* or *ambush and kidnap *insert random lord or lady’s name* or ‘*insert random factions name* have captured and occupied *insert random city name* kill the bastards and liberate the city’. There are a lot of different kinds of quests that could be incorporated which would go a long way to keeping the game fresh and replayable.

    Reputation. This for me, outshines the idea of a crafting system (in terms of realism and the thematic nature of Battle Brothers). Each town should have a governing body (a house or family) a lord, or housecarl, A capital city governed by a king and so fourth. The system doesn’t really need to be complex. The only information the player would need is, which faction owns which city and the level of respect they have for you. The players reputation with that lord/house is diminished if they fail or break a contract; it is improved if they a complete the contract. The higher the reputation the greater the reward for your services. Here, there are two types of quest givers, those of nobility and those of the common folk. Quests done for commoners, would not effect the company’s reputation, they are also unlikely to generate substantial amounts of coin. The town, village or city halls, are home to the other sort, the quest givers of the noble kind, these quests will be more taxing (and risky), but the pay off is usually better.

    Quality of weapons, I’m with you here Kalanar. I think weapons, and armour should have a quality to them, which reduces in combat (Paulsen has already created the visual representation of the torn and damaged armour). Instead of percentages, I’d prefers ‘states’ i.e. Broken, Damaged etc.
    – Which brings us to crafting (crafting is a mainstay in most RPG games). If it was to be implemented, I’d suggest adding more resource types (instead of adding a million different herbs, ores etc. Alongside ‘coin’, ‘provisions’ ‘tools’ ‘ammunition’ and ‘medical supplies’; ‘Resources’ could be exchanged at blacksmiths, tailors, and herbalists for weapons, tools or medical supplies. They could be harvested from unique locations on the map (i.e. mines, forests). ‘Goods’ could be an investment resource, one that has a higher value in the settlements most in need of them. A nice little way to make more coin on the side, when not doing quests. A market, would function in a town, village or city as a place to buy or sell goods in exchange for coin.

    #2452
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    Maybe a Blacksmith could craft you (for a price) some basic weapons and armor you can’t find anywhere else? I know I am looking for better gear right now and cities aren’t providing me with that (most of them don’t have any body armor to speak of (anything above 20).

    #2454
    Kalanar
    Participant

    I like Drew’s suggestion of reputation and personifying political bodies within locations, that sounds cool and I think there is a lot of the good kind of variety in that direction rather than crafting.

    In other news, I have had a change of heart with the suggested quality feature. I pondered the issue, and I think of mount and blade, how eventually equipping my 5-6 companions after each acquisition of loot becomes a huge chore – to the point where I stop giving them the latest and best because I’m too darn lazy. Now I imagine doing that with 12 companions! No thank you.

    This is my new suggestion: Don’t add quality, leave crafting out – add low to mid level magical/special weapons that occasionally pop up, but not with such regularity that it is boring. Having a lean set of weapons will leave the player with more time to fight and adventure and less time clicking around in an equipment screen.

    #2456
    drew1988west
    Participant

    If blacksmiths were implemented, I’d like to see them be able to craft your company weapons and armour, or improve/repair items in your stash either for gold or resources

    #2462
    BobHound
    Participant

    As has been noted, crafting where you have to gather resources can become a huge hassle in a game if it turns grindy. Being somewhat obesessive with regards to upgrades, I always tend to drop any move towards progressing in story and start grinding resources if there’s a possibility to optimize.

    I do, however, think that crafting can be a neat addition if there’s a way to implement it in such a way that it doesn’t take too much focus from the combat. Perhaps a travelling companion or a special blacksmith in cities can get orders from you which take a long time to finish. That way you can get that shiny axe with perhaps a point or two of additional damage while not easily kitting every one of your brothers with super gear.

    #2468
    Xoatl
    Participant

    I think what Trig said is valid. In order to craft a set of full plate for instance you need to go to an armourer customize the look, pay the cash, and wait a set amount of days and come back. The limiting factors should be how well off the settlement is (trade caravens coming through/number of succesful raids), so an impoverished city is limited to full mail and anything more advanced is grayed out. Assigning minor crafting tasks for unique charms wouldn’t get in the way if done right, with a focus on battle instead of collecting. So if you assign someone to make an orc ear charm, the objective to completing it would be to have that person kill orcs, every kill has a 20% chance to complete the task, with stronger orcs resulting in better stats on the charm (morale buff vs. morale buff + inflict morale debuff on orcs). They can accomplish these crafting tasks as many times as they like (or until they die) but the charms are locked to the players that made them, stopping one super soldier from being responsible for everyone’s charms. However ones that you find or buy outside this crafting system can be assigned to anyone.

    Edit: here’s another idea for a charm, Four Leaf clover, adds a very slight bonus to hit chance, melee, and ranged defense. Every tile moved by the character during a battle has a 5% chance of completing it.

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