Reply To: Real Value of Ranged Brothers

#4744
ManaSeed
Participant

>> Do not underestimate the ability to fire twice per turn. Also do not underestimate the power of a crossbow.
You gotta be kidding me, underestimate what? Crossbow is the backbone of ranged brothers. It’s even cooler if you manage to attack with Close Combat Archer perk (though I find it difficult). Fire twice per round(you mean round, right?) is so deadly, how would someone underestimate it? Who doesn’t wanna fire several times in a round?

>> Additionaly, I position my archers in a way to make it very hard to reach them

Please share your secret of success. My archers have same AP as melee enemies, so I can only delay their arrival as long as possible.

>> I don’t let myself to be surrounded.
Like how? When you begin the battle with enemies coming from all directions, you breakthrough against one direction so you won’t get surrounded?

>>Your point is…? Because what you’ve said is not even an argument.
I think you confuse meatshields (raw recruits) with someone else, because meatshields miss more often than they hit (very low base stats), so they are incapable of reaching a vast amount of damage in 3 rounds. Besides, bandits? I fight Orcs. Heavily armored too. Led by a Warboss. At that point bandits are nothing, so it doesn’t really impress me.

Seriously? Seriously serious? Meatshields, I thought that’s the way you address melee brothers. You actually use melee brothers as pure meatshield!!? And you use them as expendables, just like provisions and medicines!!?

You need someone to keep the enemy busy so your archers can keep firing, right? So you should keep your meatshields alive, and turn them into super meat- I mean, guardians. The stronger your guardians, the longer your archers can fire, so it aids your purpose.

>> If anything I’d say people are discouraged from leveling up archers, because they think chances to hit are too low and can hit their own guys

I think people are discouraged because ranged weapons deal noticeably lower damage than melee weapons, in terms of:
1) damage/fatigue cost ==> crossbow is 2x (50/25) while greatsword is 8x (118/15)
2) damage/ammo ==> crossbow provides 500 total dmg for each inventory slot (50 x 10 bolts)
==> greatsword provides 826 total dmg for each inventory slot (118 x 7 times before broken)
The best part is, durability of melee weapon is not reduced when being used against body without armor
The worst part is, unlike melee weapon, range weapon still consumes ammo when you miss the target
3) the synergy with certain perk ==> I won’t tell what is this so you can explore the fun of the game yourself

[*all calculations are simplified for illustration purpose]

Well, it’s not that easy to hit your own guy (this is my subjective view, but I strongly believe this so I didn’t record the statistics) if you only have one ally around the target. I always fire if that ally has armor on him, otherwise I don’t have guts to fire even the hit chance is 90%.

>> However, I wouldn’t go as far as to say that javelins can replace bows or crossbows.
My tummy…. it hurts *still laughing*. When I said I recommend you to compare a crossbow and javelin, I don’t mean to compliment javelin. I was actually asking you to compare the most valuable ranged weapon and the worst ranged weapon.

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>> My purpose wasnt to insult you in anyway. When I was using “you”, I didnt mean you as Manaseed but like “us”. So there is no reason to be offended.
O|¯|_ He doesn’t understand the joke.

O|¯|_ He thinks I’m angry with him.

O|¯|_ And he simply mix me up with everyone else. I would rather him to say I’m special.

>> Im not saying it would be nice to have AI calculating every possible move and be almost imposible to beat but I wish it gave more challenge to player and it wouldnt be so easy to learn its patterns.
I wish not every enemy group uses the same set of AI. It would be nice if there some coward bandits, clever bandits and violent bandits.

>> But in theory it might be bad idea to script AI to be too good with ranged men. It could be frustrating to some people to play the game anymore.
>> AIs archer is badly positioned. If player is on other side just take high ground again and its easy win again.

Let’s simplify the example to 1 archer v.s. 1 archer. What should a clever ranged enemy do when I station my archer on high grounds? Should he come or should he wait? If he’s waiting, how long should he wait?