Topic: Offense Skill Tree Discussion

  • Author
    Posts
  • #2513
    Sky
    Participant

    New day new beginnings.

    Nothing makes you imagination fly free more than a boring eventless day at work. So I decided to fill it in. And the topic will be Skills. I’d like to start a discussion about the current skills in their current state now at the start of Early Access v0.4.0.22 . This is based on my play session so far. I’d like to encourage all players to give their opinions, share their point of view together we might get the feedback the devs are looking for and improve the game we all obviously would like to succeed and give us, the players as much fun as possible. When replying to specific skills please keep the format “skillname: opinion” and an empty row between skills.

    Before we start let me just paint the picture a bit more. I jumped in the game blindly, all info I had was from few gameplay videos on Das’s channel on youtube. Had even no idea what the lvl cap is. My first band the “wolves” died on the first day by werewolf hunters. This is my second start. After the first day rape thought only the expensive guys aren’t expendable and that early game I should focus on the possibly cheapest sellswords. When starting I had in mind a balanced party with all weapon types. Was going to do dedicated defenders and attackers. Thought the skill trees as usually in other games will force the chars to a specific role rendering them much weaker or even useless in others. Well… I couldn’t be more wrong. And that’s fantastic. When I started to realize this still in early game, decided to pick a big variety of skills just to see how they work and what combos can be made. So yeah, did a lot of not so good choices. And still the warband lives long and… sometimes loses a few members making it possible for me to try the high cost high upkeep guys and getting them skills I never had before.

    Offensive Skill Tree (BB_OffensiveTree.jpg)

    TIER 1

    Sundering Strikes: Found this skill very useful. The more the game progressed, the more armored enemies became the more useful this skill was. For any weapon / role. This skill was shining at the fights with the orc warriors and leader. It is perfect as is.

    Crusher: This one was fine at the early stages, later on it became less and less effective. Now at day 65 don’t even use it at all. My band has only two freshman all others are max level, having high attack skill. Mid / late imo rarely useful. But it is a tier 1 skill after all.

    Bloody Harvest: A must have skill for 2h sword users, occasionally for the axe ones. It is much easier to line up for multi target attack with sword. Swords have two skills dedicated for this and both have more useful criteria to execute than the one axe has. Just remember you do not have to run with 2h weapons from the very start, you can easily start with shield switching to 2h later when you feel safe for the char.

    Executioner: Absolutely useless. Extremely useless. The only enemies that have enough hp for this are orc warriors and leaders. Everything else dies from one hit anyway when they below 50%. This skill needs to be reworked or replaced entirely.

    Push the Advantage: Now head hits are automatically crits right? With these bonuses this one skill is just OP. The only drawback is that you need a blunt weapon or a good hit from a 2h. O …ing P. Should be nerfed or better placed in tier 2.

    Fast Adaptation: Truly universal skill. One could even argue that the 2h have a good use of it, I personally did not simply based on the one hit / turn limitation. But anyone else independent of weapon type benefits greatly from the very early to the very end. A very strong skill, weakens as the char gets more tohit not much tho. For archers it is ideal as is, for melee maybe a little too much. Definitely a tier 1, perhaps could use a 5% nerf.

    TIER 2

    Berserk: The ultimate win skill. Giving a second hit to a 2h weapon or a third to a 1h or bow. Combined with the tier3 killing frenzy, your farmer simply becomes a juggernaut, or the ultimate god of war. It is fine as it is, you still need a killing blow to trigger. Tier 2 is the right place maybe tier 3. Love it.

    Head Hunter: Well. Is a good skill for anyone and great for the 2h users with multiple targeting. You like decapitations? How about double or even triple? Think it is in the right place and does not need change, the trigger is good. Don’t be mistaken you won’t all the time chopping off multiple heads, but when it happens it will feel satisfactory!

    Full Force: Simple passive skill. Any character with heavy armor benefits, since I tend to equip the hardest ones on my 2h guys this skill usually a guarantees a one hit kill. With armor of 200 you gain +20 maximum damage. I’m fine with it as it is, not too much not too little.

    Debilitate: Never used this one, can’t say much about it. On paper it looks nice. With a skill of 60 the bonus to any following hit is +18. Should be perfect against “fat” targets like leaders orc warriors.

    Bullseye: Definitely worth it. Especially with the tier 3 perfect focus. An arrow rain that hits everywhere. With lucky shots can kill of up to 4 enemy in the first turn using this combo. Ofc the packing up enemies getting defense bonuses from each other can’t escape no more. Good skill, right tier.

    Close Combat Archer: Situation specific skill. Either behind a defensive line or death from above. Rarely can be lifesaving when an enemy breaks through. Considering the triggers maybe is fine. Personally had only few times when could use.

    TIER 3

    Killing Frenzy: Superb skill for any time any place any weapon. When combined with berserk unstoppable. Have it on a char with 2h, one hits, decapitations and mass massacres have become his daily routine. Maybe overpowered. Hard to single it out when having lot other skill effects. Definitely right tier.

    Perfect Focus: It is perfect. For one turn. A deadly turn. Good in combination with light armored archers especially with bullseye. Or lighter, more fatigue having melees. With melee consider combining it with an other chars Rotation skill, to unload the steel storm just to be rotated to back row and catch breath. Is fine as is with the heavy throwback after use.

    Please do write your thoughts, suggestions, comments, perhaps skill ideas. Together we are strong, together we are the battle brothers. Hehe.

    #2534
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Haha “Nothing makes you imagination fly free more than a boring eventless day at work.”
    Word up :)

    Thanks for the extensive feedback I think all of your points are pretty much spot on, awesome stuff, keep it coming!

    Overhype Studios - Let´s roll!

    Facebook Youtube
    Twitter

    #2557
    Sky
    Participant

    Debilitate: At least had some time with this skill. It is a mid/late game skill that becomes stronger with its user. The dude who used it has 101 attack, that makes a +30 damage. The next in row was a pikeman, who with this debuff on the enemy made his first one hit kill on a young orc. Definetely a strong skill. It is just for one turn, still an overkill. Should be nerfed 5%-10%. But that would make it around the same bonus as the Full Force and that is a mid/end game passive. Definitely needs a rebalance but is spot on the tier 2.

    #2562
    GOD
    Participant

    Agreed on Executioner. Currently useless. Might become useful if we get monsters with large amounts of health, rather than armour, and if the ‘below 50%’ part is removed. Right now it’s utterly inferior to Sundering Strikes.

    Killing Frenzy would have been insane if it stacked, but it’s fine in its current state.

    Push the Advantage doesn’t seem that OP to me, because you do need to set it up and then still have enough fatigue to utilise it.

    Fast Adaption is powerful, but not too powerful. I’m fine with keeping it at 15%.

    I think the power of Debilitate is acceptable, since you need to build up the user and set the attack up for it to become effective. As you say, nerfing would also run the risk of making it inferior to a passive perk. Maybe you could lower the percentage, but have it last several turns? That would stress the importance of multiple characters being able to benefit from it.

    #2569
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    There are some perks in the trees which we implemented before we had a chance to implement the according enemies, thats why some of them seem so weak.
    One example is “executioner” as there are quite a few enemies planned with way more HP than armor. Another is “fortified mind” from the defensive tree, as we have lots of enemy designs in our back pocket working with attacks on your resolve.

    Overhype Studios - Let´s roll!

    Facebook Youtube
    Twitter

    #2605
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    Crusher – I find this skill useful to have, because if you happen to come across Orcs wielding shields you want to get rid of them and having a two-handed axe with a Crusher on top is the best way to do so. That or using the flail.

    Executioner – It’s good for weapons like spears, swords and bows that aren’t killing enemies with two strikes.

    #2630
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    Executioner is great for dagger user. This and Full force.
    Give man a Scramasax and enjoy free armours. Especially great against heavy armoured humans but when you start on hard you can use spam of knifes to get free armour.

    I actually think that knifes and daggers should have difference in skills.
    Knifes are more for cutting and slashing when daggers are more for stabbing.
    With good character you can kill heavy armoured man with two stabs and keep his armour.
    Obviously work not so good against orcs.

    #2641
    GOD
    Participant

    I’ve never noticed much of a difference when using it in the amount of damage they do, mostly because the below 50% almost never gets a chance to trigger. Things tend to die pretty quickly when armour is no longer a factor at the moment, including when you’re armour scavenging with attacks that ignore it – Full Force satsifies all my damage needs for that. I only ever felt much of a need to give to anyone because those mercs were never going to have use for the other tier 1 offence perks. I’m looking forward though to trying it out on these beefy enemies that are going to get introduced, that’s pretty much exactly what this perk needs to make it more useful.

    #2910
    Sky
    Participant

    Executioner is great for dagger user.

    Unfortunately at this moment the small blades are the only ones benefiting from it, and still it is much easier and worth while to just skip it. Simply take “Debilitate” and you get almost the same and independent of armor or hp rate, tried this skill many times, for me it is obviously op and worth a lot more than “Executioner”. At this point. As soon as there are more hp full enemies like ogres or mini boss like events (like the goblin king with 2-3 minions) then everything might change and this skill could be extremely useful.

    Crusher – I find this skill useful to have, because if you happen to come across Orcs wielding shields you want to get rid of them and having a two-handed axe with a Crusher on top is the best way to do so. That or using the flail.

    Executioner – It’s good for weapons like spears, swords and bows that aren’t killing enemies with two strikes.

    Well it still triggers at 50% or below enemy hp. At that point it is a 1 shot for spears and archers. You won’t be able to kill an enemy from full hp with 2 hits having this skill, or rather this skill will not help with that most of the time.

    The “Crusher” is a fine skill do strongly agree, but it my playthrough after a certain moment had no more use for it, doing just the simple strikes became the ultimate skill with everyone. I’d be happy to see the need for using many skills a lot longer than it is right now, a more dragged out progressing in the game, slower lvling, less gold and loot. That is what would make my day, but not sure if it is the right call tho.

    Just keep it mind this is a discussion of the skills “at this moment” with the implementation that are in the game now. It is not fully representetive still gives some guide lines. And that is the point at least as I see it, to give guiding feedback to the devs so they can make their decisions having feedback according to the current build. When things change so will the opinions about the skills, their usefulness their practicality.

    #2988
    Sky
    Participant

    Debilitate: Is this skill supposed to be always 1 range independent of weapon reach or weapon type? Seems strange that a billhook needs to be next to the target to severe it.

    Same goes for 2h sword split. Should it not always be able to reach 2 hexes away? Independent of the near hex being occupied or not?

    #2989
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Good point, I’ll see into that.

    Overhype Studios - Let´s roll!

    Facebook Youtube
    Twitter

    #3187
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    Is killing frenzy working?
    Didn’t notice dmg increase when it is on.

    #3190
    Rap
    Keymaster

    Works for me.

    Overhype Studios - follow us!
    Facebook Youtube
    Twitter

    #3191
    GOD
    Participant

    Works fine for me, but I’m playing on a fresh save after the patch hit. Did you carry over an old save? Maybe it’s somehow related to that, if that’s the case.

    #3194
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    Yep old save.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 29 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.