Topic: Support on strategic level

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  • #3627
    mrbunnyban
    Participant

    Right. This game appears to be inspired greatly by not just Mount & Blade, but Prophesy of Pendor. That’s a little worrying, as while I can enjoy this game’s level of difficulty I find it hard to recommend it to my friends.

    Mount & Blade and even PoP has a number of ways to help the player control the trouble they get themselves into. For instance, larger armies in M&B move SLOWER. This is a critical: Without this system, the player army is in great danger from large marauding armies which spawn randomly around the map. Also, the player has access to the Pathfinding skill which allows the player army to outmaneuver and avoid even-strength armies as well. This helps the player avoid battles that would be too costly (i.e. pyrrhic victory) and manage their loses. Take note that no rival lord sinks a large number of points into Pathfinding and thus the player always has the mobility advantage on the strategic map.

    My recommendation is to provide the player character skills which help support his battle brothers on the strategic level. Currently, all the perks available for the brothers help on the tactical level (i.e. in combat). The player character himself has no statistics or perks to speak of. I think it would be most appropriate that the player character himself levels up and gains skills to support his army, but on the strategic map instead (think Heroes of Might and Magic series). Skills which increase movement speed to help avoid battles which would be too costly are the most important, but support skills which reduce costs (tools use, wages and medical supplies), speed up healing or even help downed brothers survive the battle make for interesting options as well.

    #3629
    GOD
    Participant

    We may see something like this reflected in the non-combat companions that are going to get introduced later. They’re also discussing map movement speed, though I reckon that there’ll be downsides attached to going faster.

    I’d try and get your friends to play the demo to see if they like it. The combat is central to the game, so if they don’t like that then the strategic map won’t even matter to them.

    #3630
    Malthus
    Participant

    You mean the mercenary band getting xp when winning battles doing quests and so on and therefore getting little utility bonuses? This sounds interesting.
    This could then be supplemented by the choosen followers.

    "I am a Paladin!"
    >OMG, Malthus, there are no damn paladins in Battle Brothers...<
    "OK, OK! Then I´m a wrecked down minstrel drunkard pretending to be a paladin, singing so wrong in the midst of battle that even the undead run in fear... Better?!"

    #3638
    Sky
    Participant

    So, all those games that were listed as similar lack the most similar of them all.

    Expeditions : Conquistador

    Real time map, tbs battles, group management, quests events, etc.

    In a different setting with different artstyle and approach imo BB is better in both. No idea how I forgot about it for so long.

    #3652
    Rap
    Keymaster

    We’ve just implemented that parties on the worldmap actually get slower the larger they are. Like you said, this makes it a bit more feasible for the player to outrun large armies, especially at the beginning. Also, AI parties are now less likely to chase each other forever, as one will either catch up in time or the other will lose the party chasing it. It’ll be included in the next update.

    Not unlike Mount & Blade we also want to introduce parties on the worldmap leaving footprints. This allows the player to both track down parties and follow them back to their base, and to stay clear off of larger parties in the vicinity without them needing to be in visual range.

    Finally, as others have already said, we the way we’ll go about worldmap utility upgrades is probably with non-combat followers, not by making the player decide between combat and non-combat perks for Battle Brothers.

    I really enjoyed Expeditions: Conquistador btw.

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    #3655
    Sky
    Participant

    So did I. Thatás why was surprised not to remember it for so long.

    #3657
    GOD
    Participant

    Footprints would be neat. You could have the amount of time they stay visible depend on the terrain, so tracking someone in snow would be easier than tracking in the mountains. Also, you could have enemies make use of the trails as well. So a group that can’t see you yet but which has spotted your trail will follow the trail in an attempt to reach you. So a slower group might catch up to you again if you’re not careful. Similarly, if you’re chasing a group that does not want to fight you, you could have them switch terrain types in an effort to cover their tracks.

    It’s a shame that Conquistadors didn’t sell that well, though. Although they’ve just announced a sequel so maybe they still made a profit.

    #3658
    drew1988west
    Participant

    Oooooooo Scouts could having tracking! Why didn’t I think of that, oh I know why, because I always forgot to give my Main the tracking perk in Mount & Blade :(

    #3666
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    That is good to hear.
    Do you consider also option that bigger parties are much more visible to smaller one?
    So small party even slower can just notice bigger enemy party and run from it before get spotted?

    I thought about four factors that can influence enemy Party behaviour.
    Self-preservation(fear)
    Hunger
    Greed
    Mission
    #Werewolfs hunt for food they don’t care about possible wealth. They choose easiest target first but avoid stronger parties.
    #Scout parties have mission to gather information. They avoid fight, unless enemy is much weaker but they don’t pursuit it long because mission first.
    #Raiding Bandits parties attack all targets of opportunity but avoid stronger parties. They come here to get rich not get killed.
    #Orcs look more to prove themselves than get rich. They will look for fight and they can be quite persistent in pursuit.
    #Undead priority mission first. they tend to ignore hostile parties that pose no danger to the mission. When their mission is simply kill that guy and you are the guy they will stalk you forever.

    ### Conquistador was good game but with small replay ability value. Not mention that later battles get repetitive. The little choice in customization or lack proper equipment didn’t help too.

    #3736
    mrbunnyban
    Participant

    We’ve just implemented that parties on the worldmap actually get slower the larger they are. Like you said, this makes it a bit more feasible for the player to outrun large armies, especially at the beginning. Also, AI parties are now less likely to chase each other forever, as one will either catch up in time or the other will lose the party chasing it. It’ll be included in the next update.

    Not unlike Mount & Blade we also want to introduce parties on the worldmap leaving footprints. This allows the player to both track down parties and follow them back to their base, and to stay clear off of larger parties in the vicinity without them needing to be in visual range.

    Finally, as others have already said, we the way we’ll go about worldmap utility upgrades is probably with non-combat followers, not by making the player decide between combat and non-combat perks for Battle Brothers.

    I really enjoyed Expeditions: Conquistador btw.

    Hey, now I’m impressed. I guess it helps that there are some examples from other games that you can use for yours.

    Your team seems to be pretty on the ball when it comes to design, so please humor me giving a few suggestions. I’d recommend a strategic support skills which are specific to your game’s themes. The easy examples are lowering tools/medicine/food use and speeding up repairs/healing. For your setting, you could consider a character who can conduct rites of burial to help offset the negative effects of the death of a brother on Resolve for instance, since the deaths of brothers is something of an ongoing theme. Someone who can give a rousing speech to improve Resolve, perhaps cast little rituals to ward off undead/protect against magic/mind-affecting skills, set bait to attract werewolves.

    …or not. Eh, I’m encouraging feature creep on unnecessary features that have no critical impact on gameplay now. Hrm, I should shut up.

    #3745
    Sky
    Participant

    Hrm, I should shut up.

    No, you should continue speak and do suggestions as you invision them. Every little bit might have an impact in improving the game. And if you like the game, then you should be pleased to have a more improved experience. Especially when it eventually will be ready.

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