Invictus73

[Invictus73]

Saitorosan wrote:

Actually, you’d be better served using high dodge guys than typical tanks, even without FM, as lost souls do damage directly to HP regardless of armor. If you’re only fighting LS and have the chance to re equip, it’s actually best to go in naked for extra fatigue and initiative (pay no attention to my screenshots not showing this in action :P).

I don’t think that’s needed though, as Lost Souls drop so easily. And they are not really that hard to hit at least in my experience, since I’ve got a lot of Perfect Focus/Battle Flow characters with very high Melee/Range Skill.

[Invictus73]

Holy.Death wrote:

There are two problems with that – 1: taking a perk only to be able to fight a single enemy type shows how otherwise useless this perk is. 2: if I have to take Fortified Mind to be able to use any tactic against that particular enemy (other than “try to stab them with a spear and pray), then it shows that I am out of options. No other enemy present such a problem.

Currently there are only like five main enemy types: So if a Perk completely makes one of those types a walkover, it’s hardly useless. And devs have indicated there will be more enemy types where this Perk is needed. Moreover, as I’ve said, you don’t need to slap this Perk on everyone: Do it just on a few tanks, and that’s sufficient. And I say tanks, because after Rotation and perhaps Brawny, you could go in a lot of directions as far as T2 Perks are concerned on a tank. So it’s not like you’ve got something clearly superior you’d need anyways (which would be the case with a DPS character or a Captain character who cannot afford spare Perks).

[Invictus73]

Update:

Okay, after rebuilding a Perfect Focus archer with Battle Flow instead of Brawny, I was able to get out 10 shots the first turn in my very first battle (against Bandits, so easier kills than Orcs). I was wearing Lamellar Harness, so if you go into battle in lingerie like Mana, then perhaps even 11 or 12 is possible? That’s scary DPS. It might be that in practice the Perfect Focus archer could out DPS my “berserker” Perfect Focus melee, mainly because you don’t need your targets adjacent to you in melee range.

This initial test really really made me rethink the value of ranged units. I need to get a good battle where both ranged and melee DPS can both do their thang and compare; melees couldn’t do much here, because it was forest and half of the enemy was ranged and thus far away.

If I can consistently get 7 or 8 shots off in the first round (never mind 10 or more), then I might even add 1 more archer and drop a tank or something.

[Invictus73]

Holy.Death wrote:

They are annoying in a number of ways. First, the whole row screams at your men. Your men start running. They try to disengage and either get killed/damaged or they run away. Meaning you’ll have to reposition them again, meaning they’ll be exposed to disengagement attacks at beginning of next turn.

To sum it up: there are too many Lost Souls and it’s too easy to make everybody flee. I think Lost Souls shouldn’t be employed en masse and go as support with some other undead units instead. And there should be more ways to counter fleeing in panic except taking a perk. Even high morale can’t protect you against 18 Lost Souls yelling at you in a row.

Sure, if you have people who always hit anything they aren’t a problem, but we shouldn’t only look at enemies when we’re in the end game.

What about Fortified Mind? Most folks do use tanks; and tanks have enough Perk slots to get Fortified Mind. And a few Fortified tanks should handle them easily.

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

Invictus, show Jaffai the dumb what is photo editing.

I told ya my screenshot button is broken; and I am too computer unsavvy to even know how to use photoshop.

Anyways, as I explained, it’s perfectly possible using the numbers you guys gave.

[Invictus73]

Jaffai wrote:

Screenshot or it didnt happen :D. Base roll of generated character for melee is 45-55 before adding backgrounds and traits.

Plus 10 Hedge Knight Melee Skill bonus Plus 5 for Dextrous means I’d only need 54 to get that Hedge Knight. So it’s perfectly within the bounds of possibility.

I don’t recall what my 110 Swordmaster was when I picked him up (he was one of the earliest characters I picked up in this game), but I suspect he was close to 80, otherwise he wouldn’t have gotten to 110.

[Invictus73]

Jaffai wrote:

Oh true, I guess you can only get 2 traits.
55 is max for melee and 105 is max for fatigue.
In attachment more math with weapons, I know how much devs like it.

I’ve seen 69 (LOL) on a Hedge Knight, I believe. I guess 80 is possible on a Swordmaster.

[Invictus73]

Sarissofoi wrote:

Bad:
#Brawny – its offer little compared to other perks on this tier

“Bad”?

Are your troops only clad in lingerie as well? :)

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

Student ==> Yeah I learn stuff 20% faster! But…… I’ll never learn that perk point which was gone. A forum member has said this before, this perk should be “Mentor” which enables other allies to gain 20% extra exp.

This is indeed stupid beyond belief and needs to be replaced. A perfect newb trap. And if newbs really need it because they are really clueless, then the bonus ought to be much higher.

ManaSeed wrote:

Brawny ==> Good but probably will never be taken by anyone. Because its tier two alternatives are far more useful than it.

Strongly disagree. Is likely a better option than the other Fatigue countering Perks if you are a heavy armor tank (they won’t do well with Battle Flow since they won’t kill often enough, and Weapon Master doesn’t give them extra hits without Perfect Focus). Of course, all your troops are wearing lingerie and brandishing huge sticks that require two hands to move, so I see how you feel this Perk is not worth a second look.

ManaSeed wrote:

Inspiring Presence ==> Not bad as a perk, but not worthy of the title “Tier Three Perks”. You can replicate its effect to a lesser extent with Captain perk. Even if you can’t, you will never choose this over Rally the Troops. Not to mention your brothers will get Confident status in middle of battle, so does it really matters to begin the fight with Confident status, by using tier three perk?

I take this now on my Swordmaster, but I agree it should be a tier 2 or grant more benefits if remaining in tier 3.

[Invictus73]

By the way, I don’t understand all the fuss about Lost Souls.

I just fought them and wiped them in 3 rounds, with zero armor damage even.

I guess it helped that all my six of tanks now have Fortified Mind (I changed the team again), but I could see a variety of other ways where these guys can be made trivial. For instance, the 4 Perfect Focus ranged guys set up may take them even in two turns, as Lost Souls melt in one hit.

A much ado about nothing.

[Invictus73]

Jaffai wrote:

Max resolve = 45(Perfect roll)+10(Fearless)+5(Drunkard)+5(Cocky)+15(Background)+40(levels)= 120
With rally u get 120/2 = 60
With 2 of these you get 120 fatigue per round.
With 3 of these you get 180 fatigue per round.
Max Fatigue (With billhook) = 105(Perfect roll)+50(levels)+20(Background)+15(Strong)= 190-14 = 176
That is 9 attacks with billhook and perfect focus without taking any other perk in factor.

But those numbers are not likely even possible in practice! ;)

ManaSeed wrote:

Jaffai ==> reason: I used to choose Hedge Knight as pure DPS melee brothers. Then he made me realized I’m an idiot Wildman is a better choice. So I’m hesitating if I should go through hell again.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

By the way, can any Samaritan confirm two values for me?

What is the best initial melee skill for recruit(exclude traits effect)? 54 or 55?
What is the best initial max fatigue for recruit(exclude traits effect)? 105 or 106?

Yes, I see that Wildman are better in pure DPS terms. But I prefer a more balanced build; in particular, those 10 Melee Defense means a big deal for me, as my melee DPSers are wearing only Lamellar Harness and using two handers.

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

You sure your 110 melee skill has 95% hit chance against shieldwall? Let’s say a shield reduce hit chance by 10%, shieldwall will reduce 20% hit chance in total, so 110 melee skill should be 90% hit chance if there are no other factors such Fast Adaption, weapon accuracy, height difference, overwhelmed etc. Not to mention some shield reduce hit chance by 15%, thus reduce 30% hit chance with shieldwall. 110-30 =80

I think I am fairly sure, but I am only a man, and thus always fallible. But I don’t think I ever even recall this guy having less than ninety five percent chance.

Edit: He’s a sword user: A Swordmaster Riposte bot. So perhaps that explains it?

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

There are powers hidden within all of us.

If you’re deadly tired after walking 50km, you must think your limit is around 50~55km.

What if I tell you that you can actually walk for another 50 km? If your beloved ones are waiting at the destination for you to rescue them or something, you can probably do it.

For real men, looking at curvy maidens can mentally energize them. This power-up greatly exceeds the effect of drugs taken by wimps.

These pretty ladies with quite a personality have a chance be the wife of a brother. In other words, battle sister represents “future”. In turn, children represents “legacy”.

Everyone dies one day, your legacy is the only thing that passed onto the world. He/she carries your will, dreams and message to the world. How can you not be excited when you fantasize about creating your legacy?

*wiping nosebleed*

I think you need to go to sleep, dude. Your imagination is running amuk! ;)

Some interesting Melee Skill results I’ve found:

On a particular Shieldwalling Orc (forgot which type), my 110 Melee Skill Swordmaster had the max ninety five percent; interestingly, my only 93 Melee Skill Swordmaster had a paltry eighty three percent!

So, yes, 90 Melee Skill is clearly not enough.

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

0042 Battle Sisters has stripped!
0042 Battle brothers are not looking at their enemies!
0042 Accuracy of battle brothers has reduced by 50%.
0042 Dodge chance of battle brothers has reduced by 70%.
0042 Battle brothers become excited for unknown reasons!
0042 Morale of battle brothers becomes Unbreakable.
0042 Fatigue of battle brothers has reduced to 0.

LOL, I don’t see how seeing naked lassies would “reduce” a man’s fatigue.

ManaSeed wrote:

I think now is a good time to discuss about certain thing. I think there is an optimal figure/number for Damage Per Round. I don’t know how to call this so I’ll call it “Max Efficient Damage” for the moment.

For example, let’s say this figure is 2500. Even if you can reach this figure with just 5 melee brothers, you can’t exceed it significantly by having more melee brothers. Probably due to the following reasons:

1) limitation of attack range
2) occupation of tiles(spaces), since different characters can’t stand on same spot
3) initial formation and initial distance with enemy

Factor 1, 2 & 3 force your troops at rear or side to detour or wait. In the end, ONLY some of the line fighters are really doing all the work while the others are more or less idling, or fail to reach enemy timely.

I’ve noticed this several times when I look at the battle results at the end. 3 out of 5 brothers dealt noticeable damage while other 2 dealt pity damage, DESPITE all five brothers have same spec, and advancing like suicide squad.

This is something I want point out against pure DPS build(though my team is quite pure DPS). Not all risk are converted into firepower, some risk are taken for no purpose.

Your recognition of all this renders your refual to employ ranged units that much more perplexing.

[Invictus73]

ManaSeed wrote:

Ahh… I wasn’t answering your question just now. For mathematic and realism purpose, it is not much (60/50 = 1.2). It’s not strange if people around you have 20% difference in ability, right? But for myself, I won’t tolerate if my preferred stat (mostly melee skill) is 3 points below the best (e.g. if 60 initial melee skill is highest, I won’t accept recruit with 57 initial melee skill)
==> Recruits at lv1, effects of traits and equipment are removed
best max fatigue 106
best max resolve 45
Best melee 54(55 only seen once)
Best ranged 40
best melee def 5
best ranged def 5
EDIT
I forgot to mention the statistic is very old and doesn’t involve a lot of data. It just serves as reference.

Also, I assume these stats are prior to Background & Trait boni? For instance, I just got a Hedge Knight with 115 Fatigue, and every other stat exceeding what you quoted other than Range Skill & Defense.

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