Topic: [suggestion] Clearly unbalanced enemies

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  • #7293
    Danubian
    Participant

    Same here, you guys posted couple of things i definitely need to try.

    #7294
    JayneCobb88
    Participant

    As promised here’s those screen shots of the fight. It was vs a challenging orc encampment. I attacked and retreated 4 times before I got terrain I wanted to use. The hill has 3 access points: a broad south, a narrow west and narrow north. The north and west approaches are so close that they could be defended by one force. The clincher was a small hill to the east, impassable to the enemy so I could stick my crossbowmen up there and harass the orcs everywhere.
    As you can see, I split my force and sent my two handers south because I believed their billhooks could be used to great effect. I then used my dogs and spearwall to force the AI to take the long way around, some enemies even had to go all the way to the west. All the while my crossbowmen took a heavy toll on the enemy. My first targets were axemen without shields and then with shields. I also stuck two of my crossbowmen into the backs of the northern shieldmen so they couldn’t be knocked back by the orcs.

    The next image shows the utterly massive toll my crossbowmen took upon the enemy. Look at the number of blot-fletched bodies, including the orc chieftain in the south. I was delaying the orcs so much that one of my boar spears broke. And again in the south, my heavily armored 2-hander is only holding a goblin net. This is to raise his initiative so that he can go before the orc warrior and kill him to give my medium armor 2-hander a chance to step into the second line with a billhook because he has taken a hit.

    And here the enemy are routing but I don’t intend to allow their escape. Including using a goblin net to hobble an orc warrior and allow my crossbowmen to finish him from a safe distance. Everything else gets beaten senseless with blunt weapons.

    And the results screen. Only 2 of my guys were even hit. The crossbowmen were the ones who did the killing and my 2-handers were for explosive offensive killing, racking up their damage in 1 or 2 turns. My rally leader is the heavily armored crossbowman. He also carries 1 spare crossbow, a sword, a warhammer and a shield. It makes him super flexible and capable of shooting off bolts as needed. But if I need him for the rally ability he still has those 2 shots at a cost of only 10 fatigue and can engage in combat like that from anywhere on the battlefield which allows him to be centered in the middle of my men.

    The enemy composition was as follows
    24 total
    1 chieftain
    7 warriors
    5 berserkers
    11 young
    My current company build is
    4 crossbowmen, 3 of which are 2 handers and 1 is a sword and buckler fighter
    1 rally leader in heavy armor. I’ve found that judicious use of rally means I only need it 1 or 2 times per fight. Very rarely do I use it a third time
    3 defense/utility shield tanks each with a spare shield, spear, mace, warhammer and orcish axe
    1 heavy armor 2-hander beserker
    1 initiative-based medium armor 2-hander
    2 axemen with shields, 6 offensive and 4 defensive perks, they are my wallbreakers, meant to smash an enemy defense to bits so the rest can exploit. They also carry daggers just in case I see a bandit wearing armor that I want to have.
    I also keep a lot of dogs in my inventory as I use them as cannon fodder more often than not.

    #7295
    Danubian
    Participant

    GG how many warriors did you kill total?

    #7296
    JayneCobb88
    Participant

    I recognize that many people have builds that, strictly speaking, are more powerful than mine. But I like the massive flexibility my guys have and their ability to adapt to every enemy is just fun. Many fights take a while, like the undead and goblins but I like playing a bit of poker with the computer and finding the holes in their battle lines/weapon compositions

    #7307
    Meeky
    Participant

    Hot dang Jaffi, I’ve never thought to all out max fatigue a guy including using light armor and then perfect focusing with a 2 hander. It seems so obvious now

    I’ve done it a few times myself because two-handed weaponry is my favorite in the game. It works like a charm, but I don’t use it in every battle. Some fights pretty much demand you have that extra armor. It’s why I always keep extra gear in my pack: suits of armor, both heavy and light, spare weapons, different ranged weapons (I typically use archers but may switch to crossbows for fighting orcs / Fallen Heroes)…

    One thing I’d like to note: I almost always take Perfect Focus instead of the other perk nowadays, no matter the character. Perfect Focus just has such good synergy with anything that reduces fatigue, especially Rally. Invariably, no matter who I choose to do what, when I have both Berserkers and dudes with Perfect Focus in my army, the Perfect Focus troops outperform the Berserkers.

    The above is the same reason my go-to ranged weapon is a bow, but I’m able and willing to swap to a crossbow.

    #12750
    Sky
    Participant

    To be honest, the game now has a lot more mechanics and variability for tactical setup against the enemy packs. Even when the EA just started there were limitless possibilities to setup your party in a way to defeat even the strongest of orcs. There is no “one right” party setup to win it all. There is just too much variety and it is growing with every content patch.

    If you have a firm understanding what the role of each individual party member in your setup is, and you lvl their stats and perks accordingly, equip them with the most beneficial items for their tasks, then you should not have any problems. There are no artificial limitations, you can make a two archer party where one of them is with rally while the other with focus and high fati turning into an SMG every other round. Also many new players fall into the trap thinking that there are only 3 useful stats ignoring all others. For a character with high starting hp sometimes it is more beneficial to get the colossus and some lvl ups in hp than to get anything else. A character with high starting resolve is ideal for the captain perk and leveling resolve has obvious benefits. You mentioned goblins, do you have even one character with high initiative? So he can move first, equipped in more light armor and perks to close the gap to the enemy archers fast without dying? Ever tried to make something like that? Do experiment with build.

    Equipment is a vital part of the game both as individual character setup and the party as a whole. It does seem at first that just equipping all in heaviest armor and strongest weapons lets you roll over everything, but that is simply not true. As you obviously noticed with your current setup. It might have worked with bandits, even skeletons fairly well, but you should have had problems with big undead groups and obviously is countered with fast paced goblins and the orcish horde. Goblins easily evade your slow guys, further slowing them with bolas and nets. And orcs, well they are the strongest enemies in game, you are a mere human and can not overpower them in mere strenght.

    You have a wast of weapon and armor variety. You can use blunt weapons to stun, and it synergises well with the push the advantage perk. You can use shield bashes to change the enemy line, hooks to pull and pikes to push them around. You have nets, dogs, and other variables to controll the enemy. If you can’t take em all at the same time, slow down part of them and deal with the remainings. Combine the attributes, perks and equipment on individual members. Even without perks all the sellswords have two additional slots, you can put there throwing weapons, you can put there range wepons, shields and secoundary weapons. Just remember it does drain the fati of the mercenaries when you put stuff in there.

    Also there are lots of different backgrounds. With a full party of low end backgrounds like beggars monks and other non combat oriented professions and accordingly lower starting stat characters you will have a hell of a harder time getting by than with a full party of high end fighting professions. It is just as much a management game as it is a tactical combat game. Don’t be shy to get rid of weak brothers replacing them with new strong ones. You are the boss, they are your employes, your tools to survive in this world. That is why the constant loading of the game is imo a very bad choise. The flow of recruits should be constant so the weak ones will be removed by the game itself.

    If you pay close attention to how the AI plays you can see that the factions play quite differently. Some have even multiple playstyles depending on situation. It is a tactical game, if what you are doing does not work, do try different approach. No need to get frustrated when you can’t seem to get a grip on what is wrong and why you getting hammered by the enemy. You can always try new stuff, change things, and ask on the forums. Here are many people who will share their experience thoughts and advices on the game. Just by reading your thread you can see how differently people play this game, and that it is working for them. Do not approach Battle Brothers as the nowadays common “only one way of play to win” game, the more generic you go the less fun you will have and more frustrated you get.

    You are no heroes, just a bunch of mere humans in a harsh unjust world full of scary things that are eager to eat your flesh and devour your soul.

    #12752
    RusBear
    Participant

    excellent post. reasonable and balanced. I had several conversations with my friends – now also fans BB if we can say so about adult family people. All of them are very satisfied of the game and appreciate the excellent plan for the development of its devs. We all look forward to the “tactical” update (now especially since after the strategic part of it is obvious that these developers to afford even the most complex tasks). All we want such additions to the game, to the tactics became more and Random less – is the most important thing. Then a clever and inquisitive player will get for themselves the game – a real treasure.

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