Topic: Weapon durability

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  • #3706
    mrbunnyban
    Participant

    So. Playing the “Defend the Hill”scenario, I tried to abuse spearwalls to hold key chokepoints while my archers whittled down the opposition. Sounds like a perfectly valid tactic, right? As you may have guessed, I was undone by weapon durability – my spears broke on the hordes of enemies in that stage. Boo hoo.

    I was a little alarmed when I found my fresh weapons breaking before the battle was even halfway through. In the end I had to settle for more brute force high damage weapons/tactics due to the durability issues. Using spearwall tactics to hold the hill simply did not provide me enough damage/durability. This left me a little unsatisfied.

    I’m not sure about this one. What do you folks feel about the current level of durability of weapons?

    #3711
    GOD
    Participant

    I’m enjoying it so far, though I would like for there to be an easier way of seeing how close your weapon is to breaking. It gives a good reason for keeping backup weapons and is one of the things the driving forces behind overcoming a horde of undead as quickly as possible. It also keeps the player from getting too confident about having all those expensive weapons to swing around.

    From what I understand though, different levels of quality for weapons will eventually get introduced. So that should help you counter weapons breaking by spending more gold on higher quality weapons that (supposedly) are more sturdy. This is just a hypothetical though, as I don’t know how they plan to implement it.

    #3713
    Jago
    Participant

    From what I understand though, different levels of quality for weapons will eventually get introduced. So that should help you counter weapons breaking by spending more gold on higher quality weapons that (supposedly) are more sturdy. This is just a hypothetical though, as I don’t know how they plan to implement it.

    Wow, really? That would be great!
    Aye. As long as the inventory stays clearly arranged and you can easily distinguish between the higher and lower quality weapons.

    #3722
    Rap
    Keymaster

    Different qualities for weapons was something we were discussing a while back, but we’ve decided to go instead with distinct tiers for every weapon type. So instead of having a Masterwork Handaxe with a few points more of damage or similar miniscule differences, we’ll have a clear progression from Hatchet -> Hand Axe -> Fighting Axe where it’s very apparent from just looking at the weapon how good it is. You’re equpping 12+ people in this game, so comparing a dozen items looking almost identical and having only very minor differences probably wouldn’t work out to the player’s favor in the long run. If you take into account the fatigue costs, it may even make sense to deliberately go with lower-tier weapons as backup as not to overly burden yourselves, just like you wouldn’t necessarily go with the heaviest of armors all the time. There are quite a few gaps in weapon progression currently in the game but we’ll fill them up as we go along.

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    #3726
    NewAgeOfPower
    Participant

    I’m not sure about this one. What do you folks feel about the current level of durability of weapons?

    I agree with you. I had a battle where my Swordmaster broke a Noble Sword before he even finished killing two Orc Warriors. It’s ridiculous; are they armored in Powered Armor or something? This is a Tier 3 weapon he’s armed with!

    From what I understand though, different levels of quality for weapons will eventually get introduced. So that should help you counter weapons breaking by spending more gold on higher quality weapons that (supposedly) are more sturdy. This is just a hypothetical though, as I don’t know how they plan to implement it.

    I would like this as well, but the developers just said no below.

    Different qualities for weapons was something we were discussing a while back, but we’ve decided to go instead with distinct tiers for every weapon type. So instead of having a Masterwork Handaxe with a few points more of damage or similar miniscule differences, we’ll have a clear progression from Hatchet -> Hand Axe -> Fighting Axe where it’s very apparent from just looking at the weapon how good it is. You’re equpping 12+ people in this game, so comparing a dozen items looking almost identical and having only very minor differences probably wouldn’t work out to the player’s favor in the long run. If you take into account the fatigue costs, it may even make sense to deliberately go with lower-tier weapons as backup as not to overly burden yourselves, just like you wouldn’t necessarily go with the heaviest of armors all the time. There are quite a few gaps in weapon progression currently in the game but we’ll fill them up as we go along.

    I understand this kind of thinking, and so far, I can tell the tiers of weapon apart very easily.

    The Shortsword looks very raw, like a thick sheet of metal given a crude edge and a crude handle. The Arming Sword looks like a standard Man-At-Arms issue weapon, while the Noble Sword looks like a refined masterpiece.

    That being said, why can’t I kill even 2 Orcs with the best sword? I’ve also had my Hedge Knight break 3 Greatswords in one battle!

    #3727
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    The Quality of item can be distinguished by colour of weapon. For example:
    #Crude Sword is bronze
    #Normal is grey.
    #Fine is silver.

    Durability of some weapons is the most important right now.
    Maybe you can change a current durability system? Just a idea.
    #Weapon that have some durability points behave fine.
    #Weapon on zero 0% become dull version(lower stats) and have chance to break with attacks.
    #Fix weapon from zero % to 1% cost some additional tools.

    I would much more prefer just have more durable version of current weapons. Rare and costly.

    BTW Personally I really like difference between Short sword and Falchion. One is little better against armour other have little damage. Kinda like side upgrade not forward. Can we get more weapons like that?

    #3734
    mrbunnyban
    Participant

    Different qualities for weapons was something we were discussing a while back, but we’ve decided to go instead with distinct tiers for every weapon type. So instead of having a Masterwork Handaxe with a few points more of damage or similar miniscule differences, we’ll have a clear progression from Hatchet -> Hand Axe -> Fighting Axe where it’s very apparent from just looking at the weapon how good it is. You’re equpping 12+ people in this game, so comparing a dozen items looking almost identical and having only very minor differences probably wouldn’t work out to the player’s favor in the long run. If you take into account the fatigue costs, it may even make sense to deliberately go with lower-tier weapons as backup as not to overly burden yourselves, just like you wouldn’t necessarily go with the heaviest of armors all the time. There are quite a few gaps in weapon progression currently in the game but we’ll fill them up as we go along.

    This sounds sensible to me. Personally, I’m not a big fan of different quality of the same weapon (crude-normal-fine-masterwork) because it becomes a huge grind-fest or hunt for that elusive Masterwork Full plate of the Whale or King’s Broadsword of Haste. That’ll get pretty tedious when you have 12 people to equip. There’s plenty of progression and rewards within the game as it is.

    A top tier Noble sword breaking against two orcs sounds a bit brittle too me. I couldn’t kill anything with my spears before they broke against the undead hordes in the Defending the Hill, but apparently undead are supposed to be like that since they self rezz and come in large spawns.

    Keeping on topic, anyone else want to give their 2 cents on the current weapon durability?

    #3739
    lfish
    Participant

    Maybe I’ve just been lucky, or my guys are just stone-cold killers; but I’ve never had any trouble with durability. I don’t think I’ve broken anything other than spears when I’m letting orcs whittle themselves down on a spear wall, and occasionally A sword if I’m going to town with ripostes against highly armored opponents. I always have backup weapons for my guys though (Everyone gets a spear and at least one other weapon).

    I’d recommend some Maces and Flails for Orc Warriors once your spearwall is broken.

    #3742
    Sky
    Participant

    The only thing that I’d like to have is an indicator of currently equipped weapons(items) durability for example like Sarissofoi did on ui suggestions. To always see right away the state. It realy becomes a heavy micro management thing, and very unnecesseraly, in long battles or when more battles in rapid successions to check, remember, try to calculate, remember, check the equipment status. I’d say the ideal representation would be on a small papperdoll in the corner, maybe as in reign of kings with depleting and coloring, or with percentage. It’s way too much unconvenience at this moment to manage the gear degradation. But since ui is one of the last things that will be done (I belive there are few critical elements that should be added asap) just got to carry replacement items in inventory to swap between battles and a weapon in every belt…

    #3810
    Binkus
    Participant

    I think the weapon durability needs a rework and the bags and belts

    not saying it is awful but it sort of flies in the face of reality

    so a guy back in the day armed with his Primary weapon a spear or pole arm or missile weapon

    also has a secondary weapon or side arm (which is usually a sword or axe etc a one handed back up weapon

    the above is key to understanding the combat, a sword (one handed) was very rarely a Primary weapon i.e one you charge into battle with (unless you watch too many films) they were side arms, you had them at your side so you could go about life with both hands free to do stuff.

    so this said your historical guy has his primary weapon out lets say a spear, this gives him a range advantage over swords etc however when stabbing or thrusting a parrying sword is going to do far more damage to his spear shaft than a mace would

    so what i am saying is hitting Armour or people is generally what weapons are made to do the effect on the enemy weapon on the durability is really what is going on here so a sword would be devastating against things with a wooden handle, but a axe blocking a spear with its own shaft would have very little damage to the weapon

    this goes to the bags and belts i am thinking the side arm should be another slot which is far fast to access than a 4 point action

    #4057
    mrbunnyban
    Participant

    Quick update, seems like I didn’t really have an issue with weapon durability in the game proper compared to the scenarios. Maybe the scenarios were rather extreme? Or perhaps it is because I switch to hammer to take out armor then switch to cleaver to cut flesh? Anyway, weapon durability wasn’t really a big issue.

    #4061
    guidon101
    Participant

    I switch to hammer to take out armor then switch to cleaver to cut flesh

    When I learned to do this, my durability issues were mitigated.

    I love using only swords just for the visual and thematic feel (thanks Hollywood!), but they break too fast against armor (hitting a fully armored orc brings a Noble Sword from 100% to 88% in one swing, and of course only inflicts about 25% of that orc armor in damage), so I also use hammer as my primary “shock” weapon and switch to swords when fighting unarmored opponents. At first, I didn’t like this low durability for both armor and weapons, but now it has grown on me, and for me makes the battles feel more tactical, dynamic, and gritty (people die easily, weapons and armor break easily). Maybe Newton’s 3rd Law applies, as much damage as I am doing to a well-made heavy armor, I can imagine my well-made sword receiving considerable damage too. Not sure how it was historically, but this game seems to be aiming more for game play experience/balance.

    The only thing that I’d like to have is an indicator of currently equipped weapons(items) durability for example like Sarissofoi did on ui suggestions. To always see right away the state. It realy becomes a heavy micro management thing, and very unnecesseraly, in long battles or when more battles in rapid successions to check, remember, try to calculate, remember, check the equipment status. I’d say the ideal representation would be on a small papperdoll in the corner, maybe as in reign of kings with depleting and coloring, or with percentage. It’s way too much unconvenience at this moment to manage the gear degradation. But since ui is one of the last things that will be done (I belive there are few critical elements that should be added asap) just got to carry replacement items in inventory to swap between battles and a weapon in every belt…

    Yes! I second, third, and fourth-vote on this! Not just weapon health indicators, but also have quick slot items upfront for easy access without going into the inventory screen.

    #4063
    GOD
    Participant

    I expect the UI to get revamped when they find that UI programmer that they’re looking for, which will probably include easier ways to see what your current weapon durability is and a quicker way to switch weapons. Rap’s been doing the UI so far, but he ever so slightly dislikes having to work with JavaScript. :P

    #4231
    Wolves
    Participant

    Yup, breaking weapons in the late game are annoying – In lategame battles you have to open the inv all the time to check if you must switch to an other weapon.

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