Topic: No challenge?

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  • #2602
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    I think I am at point where game is no longer a challenge. I consistently manage to beat enemies. I beat deadly challenges barely losing anyone, if I do lose someone it’s an unfortunate accident, an exception to the rule and I a plenty of money to hire a capable replacement. I frequently outnumber or match numbers of the enemy and given high accuracy of my men I effortlessly kill them. The only problem I had in a while were the spirits as they made most of my men flee in fear and suffer disengagement attacks and there were many of them (17, in fact), but I still managed to beat them with only one man dead a two or three heavily wounded.

    Perhaps there should be a level cap or stats’ cap? I find early game being actually challenging, because not only you don’t have top gear, but also because your men aren’t as good at hitting enemies as they are at later levels (this is especially true to archers: they can kill or maim a couple of enemies even before they close ranks).

    #2604
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Hey Death,
    you are right, the late game is not properly balanced. The whole perk system was drastically changed just a few weeks before launch so we couldnt really balance-test it thoroughly against our high end enemies. As we are a very small team we always have to spend most of our time developing and sometimes the testing comes too short.
    At the moment my impression is that if you manage to get by without ever really losing a battle, the Bros outscale our enemy progression slowly but surely over the course of a playthrough.
    Rest assured were keeping an eye on this issue and wont hesitate to take measures once we feel we have enough feedback.
    Cheers!

    PS I wouldnt go so far to say “no challenge” by the way, as most people tend to complain the game is too difficult :)

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    #2606
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    It’s good to know you’re aware of the difficulty balance issue.

    I meant there is no challenge late in game, when you have decent gear, full group and a couple of level ups. Early and mid game is pretty brutal. If you look at scenarios you can see that despite having good equipment it’s pretty challenging to win them all and that’s my point: balance is lost due to level ups as your men not only increase their base stats, but also gain perks that further increase their combat capabilities. They level up too fast, I think.

    #2614
    Xoatl
    Participant

    I hate level caps, so please don’t do that. I’d like to see harder enemies, or just more of them in general. There should also be something I can do with all the cash I have. I’ve been stopping by the castle frequently but no matter how much I help everyone the best I find is a mail shirt. At the beginning of the game the castle had full lamellar, now there’s practically nothing.

    Attachments:
    #2617
    Sky
    Participant

    I hate level caps, so please don’t do that. I’d like to see harder enemies, or just more of them in general. There should also be something I can do with all the cash I have. I’ve been stopping by the castle frequently but no matter how much I help everyone the best I find is a mail shirt. At the beginning of the game the castle had full lamellar, now there’s practically nothing.

    Yep yep yep. Have the same issue, just wanted to post about it. It’s not only the castle. All of the settlements do almost no item spawn.

    #2621
    Jago
    Participant

    I hate level caps, so please don’t do that. I’d like to see harder enemies, or just more of them in general. There should also be something I can do with all the cash I have. I’ve been stopping by the castle frequently but no matter how much I help everyone the best I find is a mail shirt. At the beginning of the game the castle had full lamellar, now there’s practically nothing.

    Yep yep yep. Have the same issue, just wanted to post about it. It’s not only the castle. All of the settlements do almost no item spawn.

    Maybe it depends on how wealthy the settlements are i.e. how many caravans reach their destination. I have a save game in which I have hunted down many raiders and destroyed every outpost I could find. There’s not to much equipment in the villages, but the towers and strongholds have plenty. Recently I even bought a heraldic mail, the strongest armor I’ve seen so far, and there’s a lot of other end-game weapons as well.

    #2623
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    I think gear might be randomly generated after a caravan visits a place after you checked it out for the first time? I’ve seen some pretty good gear in one of the castles, but on my next pass it wasn’t there (I was planning to buy a crusader helmet for one of my knights after I got some coin).

    #2627
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    I also notice this. If you keep roads safe and local militia doesn’t get wiped locations are full of supplies and weapon.
    Check the status under the name of location in the location screen.
    Wealth is used for generation of caravans and military forces. So if they lost caravans they not only lost future profits but also chunk of currents wealth. The same goes for military. If they get losing troops they need spend wealth to replace them.
    Poor location = poor military forces = no chance to protect caravans => poor choice of items. Only you can safe them after some point.

    #2636
    GOD
    Participant

    Hey Death,
    you are right, the late game is not properly balanced. The whole perk system was drastically changed just a few weeks before launch so we couldnt really balance-test it thoroughly against our high end enemies. As we are a very small team we always have to spend most of our time developing and sometimes the testing comes too short.
    At the moment my impression is that if you manage to get by without ever really losing a battle, the Bros outscale our enemy progression slowly but surely over the course of a playthrough.
    Rest assured were keeping an eye on this issue and wont hesitate to take measures once we feel we have enough feedback.
    Cheers!

    PS I wouldnt go so far to say “no challenge” by the way, as most people tend to complain the game is too difficult :)

    I won’t say to those who think that it’s too difficult that they should ‘git gud’, but I will suggest they may want to get better. :P Certainly the game will stomp you into the dirt when you start out, but never in an unfair way. The key is to learn how to avoid unnecessary casualties and how not to have all your gear break constantly, at which point your core bros will turn into well-equipped killing machines. I agree with Holy.Death that the late game is too easy right now, though I would prefer seeing it rectified through beefing up the enemies a bit. Stuff like giving the enemy factions (more) traits and perks unique to them to play with, in order to keep the player sharp and to make the different high level opponents feel more diverse. I also expect that the difficulty curve will smooth out a bit eventually, once more factions get introduced that can challenge the player in different ways. In terms of difficulty, I’m of the opinion that top-of-the-line late game opponents should never feel easy, while by the end early game opponents should be manageable, though still deadly if you let them catch you off-guard.

    I hate level caps, so please don’t do that. I’d like to see harder enemies, or just more of them in general. There should also be something I can do with all the cash I have. I’ve been stopping by the castle frequently but no matter how much I help everyone the best I find is a mail shirt. At the beginning of the game the castle had full lamellar, now there’s practically nothing.

    Level caps are probably unavoidable. Otherwise student perk would become something you absolutely always want to pick. I mean, can you imagine a merc having Perfect Focus, Berserk, Battle Flow and Weapon Master coupled with high stats? The only difficulty would be getting into combat and from there on the battle is basically won. You could add Pathfinder and Brawny to ensure your streak doesn’t break, but it’s really not necessary. Just keeping the current number of perks wouldn’t balance it either, since you could still pump your stats into the stratosphere and go crazy.

    #2640
    Trig
    Participant

    Most of my guys are lvl 8 or 9 at this point. I’ve got the best gear available, unfortunately I’ve yet to see any of the fancy armours and helmets in any shop, but this battle froze before it really got going and I kinda doubt I’d end up winning it easily if at all.

    #2647
    Stareye
    Participant

    Well like trig said, even in full gear and high levels you still struggle against massive orc warriors/berserker parties.

    I hope you guys are also going to consider implementing bosses like dragons for example.
    Where you have to find and fight a dragon in its cave it will be able to use fire breath attacks which can damage multiple targets
    maybe you can get in some other quest a “dragonfireshield” for protection or whatever :D

    Things like these would give additional playtime of course after you got the invasion thing going your planning.

    #2649
    JDCollie
    Participant

    I’m a huge fan of the idea of giving enemies perks similar to player mercs. The Long War mod for XCOM:2014 did the that and ended up providing both increased difficulty and diversity. Enemies were tougher, fought differently, and had to be approached on a case by case basis, all of which is excellent in my eyes.

    Having a system in Battle Brothers where perked up enemies began cycling in later in the game could do a lot for the difficulty curve lategame.

    #2650
    Rap
    Keymaster

    Enemies actually already have access to the same perks that Battle Brothers do. Bandit Marksmen, for example, have the ‘Close Combat Archer’, ‘Bullseye’ and ‘Rotation’ perks.

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    #2651
    JDCollie
    Participant

    Wow, really? That’s awesome :D

    Do they level like we do too? (As in, are they leveled and do they have similar stat progression?)

    #2653
    Rap
    Keymaster

    They don’t level; every Bandit Marksman has the same stats (but different equipment).

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