Topic: No challenge?

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  • #2736
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    Are you folks constantly restarting your games in order to ensure you have the best character combo? Restarting every fight to change its makeup? What are you guys doing that makes this a boring easy game?

    I am talking about the point that you reach AFTER that hard start. You simply have gear to survive attacks when they connect, shields and abilities that make enemies miss more, archers who mow down targets before they come and enemies weren’t even numerous in my previous game (17 was top and most of it were the ghouls that I killed in one hit). It simply wasn’t challenging, because most of enemies died just after they reached me and hence I made this thread. In my current hard game it’s more challenging, partially due to money limitations and it seems like enemies established some really strong outposts I am in process of cleaing up (with some losses, especially due to the Orcs, who manage to mess up my battle line).

    Werewolves…I am usually fighting with my 3-4 guys against 5-8 of them…and I normally get decapitated after first round or two….if I even make it that far. 3 attacks per werewolf….insane….especially when they can 1 shot you to death with those 3 swipes.

    You don’t want to fight werewolves without GOOD armor (mail is the absolute minimum) and some experience (as this raises your skills). You need decent shields (to make them miss a lot), some swords (to riposte) or spears (to spearwall) and billhooks (to gang up on the overwhelmed ones). Having a knight or two helps a lot too, because their armor is good enough to withstand for quite long, giving you time to kill some werewolves without losing men. In fact, I’d say werewolves are more dangerous than young Orcs and young Orcs are deadly too. Besides that use tactics: high ground when possible, have at least person attack at least one enemy and make all attack same target to get Overwhelmed bonus, funnel them through narrow passages to limit their ability to swarm you, etc.

    I am just curious because so far just playing this game straight out normally I cannot find a way to win and only die after a few minutes into it…and this is at the supposed easy setting – which is a lie…its not easy its not anything setting – other than it should be called the +1000 more crowns for an extra 5 seconds of life setting. I know there is something folks are doing because you cannot win just picking up people from town and arming them…

    More money and lesser prices mean you have equip your guys better, meaning you have it easier. Without seeing you playing my guess is you aren’t fighting well enough and by that I mean setting priorities in combat. I won with 3 of my starting guys on hard against starting 7 bandits. They just weren’t well equipped so my guys went through them. One of them barely survived though. And I didn’t go into that fight with only 3 people because I was confident. I simply didn’t have enough money (or equipment in town) to hire and outfit more than my founding memebers.

    #2741
    Trig
    Participant

    Ok I have no clue what you folks are doing and how you are bypassing the game mechanics because after playing this pathetic game now for the last 6 hours

    I’d say pathetic playing skill shouldn’t be confused with the game itself being pathetic. :)
    The game mechanics are very transparent and straight-forward.

    Game start can be hard if you were really unlucky with initial guys, but not too hard. If you saw the dev’s Naked Challenge, then you see the first bandit battle can be done naked even, with some skill and some luck. In my 40 hours of gameplay I have really just been playing 2 games. I reroll (restart) the game a couple of times to get the three initial guys that I like (more for looks than for gear), then play the campaign for as long as it goes. First one I lost a month in because of lost saves due to an update, the second one now some two months in is still going strong.

    1. Equip your fighters sensibly. Know which one will perform which function.
    2. Try to get onto high ground when you defend and employ shieldwall and spearwall functions.
    3. Calculate the enemy’s moves when you attack. After they move more than 2 hexes, they usually can’t hit anymore. Intercept them there and you’ll get first strike.
    4. Gang up on enemies, try to take one out and all of them will lose morale, which makes them clumsier in their turn.
    5. If you feel too weak to face an enemy, get them to follow you and run to the nearest town/castle and the militia or soldiers will help you in battle. If an allied soldier falls, stand over them and pick up their weapon/shield, this way you get to keep it after battle (got some nice kite shields this way in my early game).
    6. Know when to be cautious and when to be agressive. That’s what makes a good tactician.

    #2753
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Nice tips for any beginner!

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    #2764
    Dyderich
    Participant

    Easy enough to criticize but I know how to play melee type games and use environment as well….

    Finally restarted again and this time I managed to just put together a ragtag group ended up with about 10 of them….and so far I managed to stay alive with a loss at each fight of 1 or 2 and replacement usually of 1 soon thereafter….the problem is werewolves are overpowered and once they are on your trail you have no option to get away – I kept trying and with the stupid movement issues you usually end up stuck at some point especially if you are near water areas…finally gave up and decided since I was at a town to just burn away a quest for caravan guard and accepted and let them get taken on by the werewolves….and I tried to escape….it took the WEAK group to kill a WEAK caravan about 3 seconds and then they were back on me as I was trying to stay on the road to gain as much speed as possible….managed to cross the bridge and go south and finally evaded them – just ridiculous should not be so damn aggressive as that to run you down forever. I am guessing late game is about anywhere from day 15 onwards? If not then there must be something up because I saw only hideout/dungeon/etc. labeled AVERAGE, STRONG, INVINCIBLE – yeah…my puny 8 guys doing anything past weak group (if that even)….so I am guessing that these npc lairs are all randomly generated as well….and randomly powered to beyond normal limits. So far I have not been impressed at all….these games are just too unforgiving at the beginning. I could stand seeing some challenges but this garbage is just down right annoying now. Perhaps when there is some sort of balance so that you can actually do something beyond the first 30 minutes of gameplay without having to just restart the game constantly due to constant death of party or majority of party, will make it worthwhile. For those of you that have it too easy…be thankful…you are manipulating or getting your games very easy then….enjoy them and complain about the boringness while the rest of us curse the waste of money for something that is really not enjoyable to play.

    #2767
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    Easy enough to criticize but I know how to play melee type games and use environment as well….

    You are the one who calls this game pathetic and accuses people of bypassing the game mechanics, because others are doing better than you do.

    #2768
    Sarissofoi
    Participant

    What are you talking about?
    Start at easy so you have enough cash to equip your guys.
    Grab them militia spears(basic attack has +20% to hit) and shields(bonus defence).
    Add one or two archers.

    Then just know when to fight and when to run.

    #2774
    GOD
    Participant

    Did you play the scenarios? My advice is to do all of those before jumping into the game, so you’ve got a solid grip on combat and how some of the enemies work.

    We’re not actually talking about making the early game harder. The early game is fine for the most part, with the things that are missing being in the pipelines. We’re talking about the late game. The actual end game hasn’t been implemented yet, so instead what I’m referring to is to when the player has build up a full group of mostly high level mercs who are all well-equipped and is taking on the strongest hideouts.

    The strength of werewolves is that they are fast, hit multiple times and hit hard. Their defence, however, is relatively weak. This makes them an excellent target for spears, as they will continuously run into your spearwall and slowly kill themselves. This works even better if you can position your spearwall on a hill – a single merc can hold off an entire pack of werewolves this way. If you try to take them head on at low level you’ll lose many troops, but that’s the point. Shields, bows, spears, swords (for riposte) and the billhook can all easily be acquired early on and will make werewolves quite manageable. Since you are playing on easy, you can also afford good armour to increases your chances further. The only thing that difficulty level changes is the amount of gold you start with, but this makes for a huge difference, since you can buy lots of recruits and get good gear. Good gear and high levels make a huge difference, so focus on fighting bandits before taking on Orcs and Werewolves.

    #2776
    Trig
    Participant

    Easy enough to criticize but I know how to play melee type games and use environment as well….

    Easy enough to call a game pathetic and garbage, but then you can’t put together a “Thank you!” when someone kindly offers you some tips.

    Either you’re very very unlucky or just really terrible at playing. Check any Let’s Play video on YouTube and you’ll see several people making it throught he first few days step-by-step. I even gave you a link where a dev wins the first battle stark naked. And all you can do is call everyone who is better than you, and that seems to pretty much include everyone who’s ever played this game “manipulating or getting your games very easy”.

    Is being rude to everyone and finding excuses your general approach to life’s obstacles?

    #2777
    Malthus
    Participant

    @ Dyderich: You knew you were buying a game that is in alpha state. This is what EA means. The game is neither feature complete nor is it balanced right now. If this is what you are complaining about the fault is on your side…

    "I am a Paladin!"
    >OMG, Malthus, there are no damn paladins in Battle Brothers...<
    "OK, OK! Then I´m a wrecked down minstrel drunkard pretending to be a paladin, singing so wrong in the midst of battle that even the undead run in fear... Better?!"

    #2786
    Indus
    Participant

    I only skimmed but I hope someone has mentioned Vampires as a point in favor of challenge. Part of that challenge is accepting and managing that deployment will result in one instant death by the end of round one. Even without that cheapshot Vampires and their skeleton guards are no pushovers. I see the ruins, we know they’re infested with filthy undead, oh wait guys I’m going to go take a leak real quick.
    Dumby

    I’ve had 4 Orc Berserkers whipe out 10 of my Brothers on one playthrough. I’ve lost the starting fight on one playthrough. I’ve gotten raided by Raiders. I think the challenge is good. I do wish more weidergangers (sp?) spawned with ghouls on some of those encounters. I love playing those fights, and the feeling of going up against a horde of undead and coming out on the other side. I would not have fought that Orc horde from the previous screenshot.

    We’re in EA too we have more creatures (a whole faction of them), more equipment, and a lot more to look forward to if all goes according to plan. It’s only going to get better, good job Overhype guys.

    #2859
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    One point I think that’s worth adding – gauging difficulty of fights is problematic when you begin, especially when it comes to enemies such as werewolves and orcs. They may be weak, but their weak is strong. Very often way too strong for a starting party. Maybe even for an experienced and well equipped band of brothers (you can win, but losses will most likely make it not worth it. More so when you don’t have a huge quest reward or some gold stored “just in case”). I think “strength meter” could use some rethinking.

    #2860
    Rap
    Keymaster

    The strength rating will see a rework next week from absolute values to values relative to the player, i.e. to ratings like ‘challenging’ based on the estimated strength of the player’s party. This will probably remain a contentious issue, though, because of the wide gulf of player skill. What is challenging for one player could be quite manageable for another.

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    #2861
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Edit: I got sniped :(

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    #2862
    GOD
    Participant

    Sounds reasonable. This should keep starting players from going after Orc patrols, though you lose that ‘Aha!’ moment where you realised that those Orcs were weak … compared to other Orcs. Is the strength assessment determined by a combination of the value of your gear and levels?

    I’m starting to see a pattern of sniping one-upmanship between you. :P

    #2914
    Sky
    Participant

    Easy enough to criticize but I know how to play melee type games and use environment as well….

    This is not your usual melee type game. Sorry to hear that you had a lot of trouble early game. From what you wrote all I can say that you were extremely unlucky to have both werevolves and orcs at the very start. Both of them are powerful. And I did learn that the hard way. The point where you do not like the death of your brothers mechanic, well this is a big part of this game. Being in late game with lvl 11 band and best aviable equipment still makes me lose 1-2 from time to time to a full 28 pack of orcs. And for me it is one of the charms in theis game. You are not invincible, you aren’t the heroes of the light who will purge the evil of this world(not yet). You are mercenaries, you work for money, dirty bloody money, not because you want to but because you have to.

    If by manipulating you mean chosing the enemy wisely depending on previous experience with them, then yes I’m very much. After the very first try when my guys died the first day from werevolves I did avoid them entirely, unfortunately now whn i’m looking for em I can not find any. And yes, the first orc encounter did take 4 of my mens life. Those were young orcs. That made it quite clear to me that it will take a while before I can battle them or even the stronger ones.

    You were given lots of tips already, all I can add is do equip ALL the shields. Independent of the role you intend for the guy, at the early stage just give all a shield. This will improve their survival tremendously. Use the skills like spearwall and riposte to fortify the edges, keep some people fresh to rotate them when needed or to intercept enemies that circle around to your archers, keep guarding the archers against vampires, they will chose a lone unit for their target usually.

    Just remember, if you keep doing the exact same thing in the exact same situation, the result will be exactly the same no matter what you wish.

    I only skimmed but I hope someone has mentioned Vampires as a point in favor of challenge.

    The ss setup is I’d say more of a good one, usually my band is more spread out with huge gap between one of the member and the rest.

    And that is the personality of the vampires, they will go for the lone guy to eat him up fast. Knowing this should help you. And to avoind being vampired from the very start, you do need to increase the initiative. Hope there will be jevelin throwing enemies that will make you increase the range defense stat as a melee or take range defense perks aswell.

    The undead hordes. Yes, that is the most satisfactory huge battles so far. Unfortunately I did not manage to get into an orc battle as on the screen but i’d certainly would love to. And yeah would be great to have some videos on youtube with massive battles. Will try to get a good fight on a recording, when time allows. Tho first would need to have time to play at all…

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