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[JavaJavaJava]

Total agreement with GOD ^
I like the rogue-like feel of survivability in Battle Brothers, but Hitpoints are a dump-stat at the moment. They needn’t stay that way; you guys have a good game at the moment, devs, I trust that Hitpoints can be made relevant, so they’re not as fragile as your merc’s naivete.

[JavaJavaJava]

Yeah, it was probably a bug then: Haven’t tested it extensively since (I build high melee defense specifically because that blow revised my playstyle). I think I’ve only seen one other time when I have lost a man wearing head armor still get decapitated, but the orc *might* have done the 150+ or so damage necessary to insta kill, so I didn’t think it a glitch.

Is the decapitate chance there vs full head armor if the merc has lower than full HP? He might have been down 5 or so, I just remember that he still had most of his (300) armor: It’s possible he may have lost some earlier, to Lost Souls or something, I just remember he didn’t lose any that fight and I don’t believe he was down any… but then, no screenshot, and I was Iron-Manning at the time.

[JavaJavaJava]

Yay Cancel button!

Does that include a way to un-select a level up skill? “Whoops didn’t mean to click on ranged skill…. DAMN”

[JavaJavaJava]

I too have experienced this glitch. Here are my findings.

Never observed Berserk malfunctioning by itself, only when I have Killing Frenzy also:

Killing Frenzy and Berserk seem to work only intermittently together. When I first got the two together (on a Billhook exclusive user), it would only proc Killing Frenzy the first kill he got in combat, and never both, but it worked synchronously after that, extending Killing Frenzy and procing Berserk together: This happened reliably for four battles, all against Orcs, so I thought it was a feature, not a bug (which saddened me considerably).

Then I used this same fellow against bandits and the undead, and I observed Berserk AND Killing Frenzy procing against the undead every time (that I observed), and about 80% of the time versus bandits.

The conflict seems to be the first time they both try to proc together, although the battles rarely lasts long enough to afford more than two or three opportunities to use the skills. My final party had two brothers with identical builds that incorporated both Berserk and Killing Frenzy, and I can’t say with 100% certainty, since the second fellow’s faced fewer Orcs, but the latter of them used 1H and shield, and he seemed to have no trouble procing both Berserk and Killing Frenzy the first time in combat. He’s seen fewer combats, however.

Really glad it seems the two are supposed to go together :)

My suspicion is that Killing Frenzy and Berserk may not work perfectly with 2 tile ranged weapons. Not a whole lot of testing to back that up, but I first noticed the problem (in repetition) with a Billhook user. As soon as I figure out where to find my savegames, I may get into a battle that demonstrates this and attach it; been binge-playing your game.

[JavaJavaJava]

I’ve never had issues with Undead (Zombies specifically) getting back up to be much of an problem, since they come back with lower HP. I highly recommend linebackers with billhooks and Berserk, for that; even works out to your advantage, sometimes.

As for the Necromancers raising them… why nerf that? That’s what makes the fight terrifiying :D

[JavaJavaJava]

Indeed. Gentlemen, if you haven’t gotten Cleavers yet, I advise you to look at it: Decapitate. Terribly OP, at this stage, IMHO. 45% chance on my line-Brothers to get…. an instant kill. Takes off the head, REGARDLESS OF ARMOR. That’s right, about 10% lower than normal strike to land a one-hit, with a 1H weapon. Used it on Orc Warriors a couple times; giggle-inducing, so probably OP as balls :)

Couldn’t figure out how my 2H level 11 plate monster (with 40 melee defense :D ) got downed in one hit, at full HP, Armor, and Head Armor that one time fighting orcs. Why? They use Cleavers. And I would be willing to bet they occasionally use that one-hit ability, to morale-damaging effect. One of the reasons I don’t like fighting Orcses.

[JavaJavaJava]

Tier 1 Defense perks:
Does anybody actually use the 25% Hitpoints perk? Since direct hitpoint damage is pretty rare, I’ve always thought 20% more armor — combined with utility’s Brawny (50% reduced armor fatigue) just outclassed it completely. Even if you leveled up Hitpoints at every opportunity, you’d only get them up to about 100 ish, with Colossus, that’s… maybe a soft max of 150? At level 11? Whereas if you level Fatigue at every opportunity instead, you could simply wear better armor, even without Brawny, for a much better final tank.

I mean, doing the math: Two levels of Hitpoints, could be about 8 more final damage you can take…. whereas 8 ish Fatigue max, means you can wear 20 more body armor AND 20 more head armor. Worth it?

Taking hitpoint damage inflicts morale damage too. Why on earth would you build Colossus, when you could take Battle Forged, Dodge, OR 25% Shield defense?
Colossus increases your final tank by about 5-8% (when you can take it, at first Tier, when it matters most), whereas Battle Forged reduces damage to armor by 20% (not sure if it applies to the Head, but even if it doesn’t, that’s still about 15% total damage reduction); Dodge decreases chance to be hit, at least once per battle, by roughly 5% I believe, and getting hit at all is pretty catastrophic in this game; and the Shield bonus (admittedly only good for shielders) is just plain awesome for survival– as the first perk purchased, along with a Heater Shield, you’re pretty much set to avoid all damage until you’re up against mid-level foes.

I can understand wanting to be tankier, but honestly, taking Colossus over any other perk– especially the ones that lower your chance to be hit outright — seems sub-optimal. On top of that, you can have 300 total armor points, but less than half that of Hitpoints, and you can’t swap out your damaged Hitpoints between battles for fresh ones, like you can with armor and shields.

IMO, I might consider taking Colossus if it added flat HP in addition to the % max, and/or increased the Healing rate — there are some heroes that really can use more hitpoints, but it’s tough to take one of your 3 level up boosts in hitpoints. Fatigue, Weapon Proficiency, and Melee Defense trump, it would seem to me.

[JavaJavaJava]

Tier 1:

Once I got to my second play through (‘beating’ the game, full party of lvl 11’s with a few in plate), I have never gone into the Utility tree for anything other than:
Bags and Belts + Quick Hands, and Pathfinder, not necessarily in that order, culminating with Brawny for most of them.

Student is pretty much useless: Trading 10% of you maximum potential levels for getting there 20% faster? A waste. Personally, I’d take it if the level cap was 20 or 30, maybe. Maybe.

Shield Bash: Why? I could just hit them if I wanted to do damage. The knockback is very situational, and does damage already if you push them down height. Very weak.

Wait. I can remember the last one… Um…

Taunt: Whether or not it works, I’ve never had problems controlling ‘aggro’ with opponents thru careful tactics and Zones of Control. Unless it can actually pull enemies off of friendlies, which it clearly doesn’t do, I don’t think I would ever take it. Why Taunt When you can Shield Wall? Shield Wall has the added bonus of reducing the chance the next attack will hit, anyway.

Something I would LIKE to see at Tier 1, IMO replacing Student at this point; Sight Range increase, or some other Archer love… Range increase?

Tier 2:

Brawny. I go no further (for total level reasons) for any of my Brothers save the one Captain who gets all the morale and Rally type Utility stuff. That 50% Fatigue reduction for armor is essentially a 33% Hitpoint boost, or thereabouts.
I get that skill on nearly EVERY Battle Brother I command. Totally worth it, and if everyone has Bags and Belts + Quick Hands, they can carry a full run of weapon types for every situation, and I don’t have to worry about moving different people to the other end of the battle-lines to deal with those turtling Orc Warriors or Fallen Heroes.

[JavaJavaJava]

@ ManaSeed:

I can’t say this with complete certainty, as I’ve always considered Fearsome ‘Meh’ and never gotten it after the first couple play throughs, but Fearsome does seem to work for some enemies: Specifically, the Fallen Heroes undead type. They do morale damage (pops up the little negative morale check flags) when they hit for only armor damage, I’ve had a shielder Brother fall to Wavering morale from confident when facing two of them (only) and not taking any Hitpoint damage.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Fearsome didn’t work properly for Brothers, the game IS in developement still and I’ve seen uncertain cases of other skills not always working right in some circumstances…. actually, against Orcs as well, now that I think on it.

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