Sarissofoi

[Sarissofoi]

Proficiencies(levelled at amount of damage dealt by type of weapon) would make possible to have characters specialized in specific weapons. Swordmaster will be actually swordmaster not a guy who can use any weapon. Also it would be move against Bags&Belts and Quick hands Jacks of all trades – by that I mean guys who are walking armories – it still will be possible but levelling one/two weapons will be faster than few types. It would also make using some of lower tier weapons more attractive as a step taken into levelling up.
The non military recruits would have none of them when military one could have few levels.
Even non military could have some of them.
Like:
Woodcutters having Axe and 2hand Axes Prof.
Butchers – Cleavers
Miners and Stonemasons -Picks and hammers
Thieves and Killers – Daggers
Poachers and Hunters – Spears, Javelins, Xbows or Bows
Noble backgrounds – Swords but also could have Xbows or Javelins(hunting)
Militia and Deserters – spears and or other random skill set
Professional Military – skilled with most of them but specialized in few or one
Etc.
That way you can hire a Commoners and make them into soldier you want.
Proficiency could be built into a small tree(a point is earned as a character level up in said Proficiency) and trees could be different varies on weapon types.
For example Sword Proficiency could look like that
A. Basic +5 Accuracy
B. Advanced +5 Accuracy +5% damage
C1. Skilled Offence +5% damage,
C2. Skilled Defence +5 Defence Skill.
C3. Efficient Moves -20% fatigue cost
D. Master +5 accuracy New Special attack skill Flurry(make 2 attacks instead of one with -15% Accuracy for fatigue cost of 30).
Best thing is that levelling of proficiency would be not dependant on Soldier level and could be improved in Veterans Hall in cities(for coin) to some degree. It would be also for any soldier to level up in all proficiency but it will take a lot of time. Professional backgrounds will have a advantage of knowing some of it. So player can decide if he want save a time at a cash cost(it would also make replacing experienced losses easier).
Experience and Knowledge(levelled by killing specific enemies or by number of battles against said enemy) would grants specific bonuses for soldiers who fight against specific units. Killing stronger version of enemy(like killing warrior orc instead of young Orc) would level up that experience faster.
It could be typical Tiered skill set that grant some minor bonuses against specific enemy. Some Backgrounds could come with them and there could be made some new Backgrounds that resolve about this(like Bounty Hunter, Beast Hunter, or Goblin Hunter). For example Hunters could have some started bonus Beast Experience and Witch Hunters Undead Experience
For example:
1.Basic Undead Knowledge: +5% damage, +5 to resist negative rolls caused by Undeads
Etc.
Some soldiers could even start with some random levels, especially if it connected to their backgrounds(Like grave robbers). Some basic levels of knowledge could be taught by instructors in Veterans Hall in cities or in Company(if you have one with the Instructor Trait).
Training would simulate physical and mental level of soldiers by flat increase of stats.
It could be gained by simply having a soldier in company(as he train with others). Having experienced soldiers who can teach freshmen could speed up this process.
Something like:
Basic Military Training – 5Acc, 5 Resolve, 10 Fatigue
Etc.
It could be Tiered. Some backgrounds could learn faster or come with some training already.
There would be big difference even with similar basic backgrounds(even if basic roll stats will be similar).
For Example:
A. Fisherman Herman start with Basic Spear Proficiency, Adv. Physical Training(+Fatigue), Basic Reflex Training(+Initiative)
B. Militiamen Gerhard start with Basic Spear and Sword Prof., Basic Physical Training, Basic Discipline(+resolve)
This way a a characters with the same a basic stats rolls could end as completely different individuals.
Mostly levelling of this skills would come natural. March, fight and kill enemies and they will grow naturally. Also it would help balance things in game(as farming bandits would not make your soldiers to gain experience against undeads) and help to stop over inflating stats.
Cheap backgrounds will become available again.

Thanks for reading I hear that you like wall of text so I make one.

[Sarissofoi]

I run mostly with cheap backgrounds(due to start another map sickness and semiIron man runs od deadly) and they I don’t have a single 4 roll on Melee Skill stat. The highest was 3 for primary stats(RS,MS,RD,MD) and 4 for secondary(Fatigue,Bravery,HP,Init) but often than not I get 1 for primary and 2 for secondary stats. Not a single 4 for primary or 5 for secondary.
Over all I get enough of lower rolls that I think it was below average 2 for primary or 3 for secondary stats.
It make cheap background very weak especially compared to high basic stats of professional military and noble backgrounds, better traits of their and their better progression(on forum guys report 4 growth for primary stats).

The current stat growth is punishing player for investing time into not optimal recruits.
Not reliable stat growth is especially hurting with static and not refundable perk system.

The current system have three pillars that soldier is build:
-basic stats based on background
-perks and traits(traits affected by background and negative one are clearly bad)
-level up stats growth it supposed to be random and not affected by backgrounds but who knows

But let think about the idea of forth pillar:
-trainings and experiences

Let me explain.
– basic stats are rolled in much bigger range that before but ranges are the same for any background(yes the same) with some minor differences between social class(Commoners eat everything, Nobles have some bonuses to stats but demand high quality food)
– traits get remodelled to not make them not pure negative or positive (with some exceptions)
For example Optimist don’t give a flat increase of Resolve but grant bonus to rolls when Morale can get increased.
On the other hand Pessimist get big bonus to resist negative morale checks(he expect bad things to happen) but penalty for a rolls to morale increase.
Or say Cocky(right now its terrible trait 5resolve is not worth 5Melee and range defence) Grant resolve bonus for using resolve based skills but also great penalty when getting hit(as he is not really brave but a fake).
The traits should be more occasional than just flat bonuses.
-the level up stats could be both random and chosen
Any character could have a small random growth automatic applied on level(not affected by player choice). Soldier level up and he get few points as a free upgrade(not too much say 1MS and 2 fatigue or 1RS and 2 Init). Not too much and they are free.
But also player can add some small amount to 3 stats as before(say 1 for primary and 2 for secondary stat). Not too much but still it would be a thing after ten levels.
– then there is a Training and Experience
What exactly differ professional Soldiers from Fresh recruits?
Training and experience.
Its like perk system but it mostly grant flat stat increase and can be earned by many ways. By simply spending time with company, earning experience, slaying enemies or dealing damage, or fighting set amount of battles, or using weapons set amount of time, etc.
For example:
-basic Military training(grant 5MS,5RS)
Soldier who spent few days with company have increase chance to earn this. Soldiers train each other and having experienced soldiers could trigger this fast.
For example all Militiamen come with a at last 1 or 2 levels of experience and they have Basic Military Training.
Sellswords start on 4-5 level and have Advanced Military Training.
Some backgrounds can come with Survival training that increase HP and fatigue(hard working people) other can have reflex training(Thieves or Ratcatchers) etc.
Trainings increase stats by flat amount.
Weapon proficiency give user weapon based bonus(either Accuracy, damage, defence or fatigue cost reduction or even additional skill or reduced durability cost on use).
Experience grant user bonus against specified enemy(bonus chance to hit, bonus damage, bonus to resolve or bonus to defence).
It will greatly help to give troops individual feeling.
Like look at this Militiamen(2Lv):
-he has Basic Spear Proficiency
-basic Military Training
-Advanced Physical Training
He cost 500 coins to recruit, 10 to upkeep and will eat everything
Look at this Swordmaster(5Lv):
-Master Sword Proficiency
-Basic Dagger Proficiency
-Advanced Reflex Training
-Advanced Defence Training
This guy cost 5000 coin to recruit, 30 to pay upkeep and demand wine and meat on his dinner
All have varies degree
The big thing is that it can be achieved by anyone but it take time and guys without it have harder times to survive.
So either player can get experience mercenaries but at great monetary cost or get some freshmen and train them.

Anybody thoughts?

[Sarissofoi]

The same should go for food.
Losing one meal is no reason to desert.
Also i think instead slowly losing food hour by hour it should be done on Dawn and Dusk.
I dont really think that soldiers snack all day and night.
What do you think guys?

[Sarissofoi]

The other thing about contract is there is no sensible option to resign when you take them and see that you can’t fullfil it.
Investigate location for example is straight go and kill mission. No option to check and then report back and resign if you think that enemy is to hard.

[Sarissofoi]

Few others things:
-no clear indication about enemy strenght ot composition in contract

Recently I clear some cementary on Contract and get 2nd contract in chain to kill necromancer.
I accespted but then contract lead me to enemy CAMP agaist 24 enemy combatants(2 Necromancers, plenty of Skeleton guards).
Little chance to complete mission.
Problem is all this wall of texts in contracts suggest that it will be combat on level similar to cementary but then it was like 2 tiers higher.
Also pay wasn’t really scaled to difficulty of task.

Similar thing happen when some guy hired my company to deal with some bandits who rape his daughter. Reward was rather low and it text suggest that i will be facing thugs mostly.
What was my suprise when it lead me to ‘Abadoned Hut’ full of Riders.
There was also one more thing this ‘Abadoned Hut’ was in fact Bandit CAMP but it change name when i get a contract.

Sure i get it that its a open world and mostly snadbox game. Sure I get that some mission will kick my ass.
Thing is that in 0.5.0.5 build gold in reward was good suggestion how hard contract will be. Now its gone. Its almost pure RNG. No enough information.

[Sarissofoi]

Log file.

Attachments:

1. log.7z

[Sarissofoi]

Global map looks really nice. Especially at night.
-clouds sometimes block view
-still range of view is unkown

New contracts are great.
-sometimes bugged
-not enough information in first place
-very small number of contracts avialable
-wall of text is nice to have but Contracts lack quick summary info

Trade goods system helps to earn a little which is helpfull on harder difficulties.

Enemy AI on global map but passive on tactical map.
-if they chase my band they should attack me on tactical map

Changes to perk tree.
+it looks like Perfect Focus combo get nerfed
-low tier Offensive perks are mostly useless
-hold out moved to 2nd Tier which makes low level Company prone to mass routs(enemy kill one of your cheap guys, rest get morale debuff, easier to get hit, harder to hit – enemy slaughter more)
-still have some useless perks like Student

New stats Level up is nice.
-some stats have terrible low rolls
-it should show all possible rolls so player can easily choose the best, now its still possible but with cancel=waste time

Inn is great addition. Big plus.

Overall great job still its buggy and bugs dont let me enjoy this. Still great job.

[Sarissofoi]

Hm. Strange. After quiting and reloading it show itself.

[Sarissofoi]

PsenBattle wrote:

Hey there,
really like the suggestions, especially the krampus.
In general I decided to go for more of a “military” look than a “heraldic” look for the banners. Of course Ill keep you updated on the topic.
Over the holidays I have been busy with some new treasure to plunder, so its not just boring coins anymore.
On top of that there will be special treausre locations hidden across the map featuring extra hard fights and according piles of loot

Nice. Do you plan to make Treasury Maps (like in old SM pirates)?
Getting some pieces of info or locations of enemy camps from defeated bands(or from informants in human settlements) would be great too.
Also do you implement legendary items or unique armors and more types of weapons?

[Sarissofoi]

Hey Psen. GreaT ART like always.
I am not personally not a big fan of horned helmets. Will you give us non horned version as well?
Also do you separate tabards from armor or the banner-man have just tabarded version of gambeson?

[Sarissofoi]

As far as I can see is temporary but who really knows.
Current system is no fun in log run even if working and predictable.
Preferred much more randomness of old backgrounds and stat growth. It was more enjoyable and allow some unexpected guys grow strong. Now its only few vial able backgrounds for End Game Dream Team.
Devs promise to rework whole stat and perk system and seeing how they mean business I hope they will do it and do it well. But we will see.

[Sarissofoi]

Rap wrote:

It will be several months until the next update. That’s a very long time, but it will be the single largest update for Battle Brothers and something that unfortunately can’t really be divided into several smaller updates.

That sucks really hard.
I hoped that we can get some new shiny things before Christmas but it looks that Germany going Muslim is true news.
Anyway God speed. I see that you do good job but showing us nice stuff but not allow to taste it is pretty cruel.
At last I hope that Psen throw us some of his artworks to droll over.

[Sarissofoi]

The orc armors are made from human armors.
Also they can drop unique shields and weapons.
Their weapon have high damage but low durability and is heavy and cost more fatigue to use – but on higher level it shouldn’t be a problem. It offers high damage and great ratio against armors.
The game is still half done at best and in actual state there is little reason to fight orcs at all. Unless you want to test your strength. Killing bandits is much more profitable and safe. Wait until they can actually raze settlements and take over strongholds so fighting them will be a must.

[Sarissofoi]

Jaysen wrote:

Hey guys,
just a quick note: Paul is not available right now but will be back and answering here on monday!

Cheers!

What do you do to him? Release Paul!

[Sarissofoi]

Meeky wrote:

I’d totally love to see some Viking-style helmets for characters with the Raider background, myself. Eastern European armor would be pretty great, too. I foresee that a lot of cultures could potentially have their equipment implemented eventually, actually (from Muslim weaponry to flambergs to cavalry armor), but that’s probably in the far future.
One style of helmet that’s well out of this time period but is a personal favorite of mine is the morion – that helmet used by Spanish conquistadors, largely used during the 16th and 17th centuries. The cabasset is cool too. But again, those were helmets of a different time (pike and shot), so I doubt they’ll be included.
On another note: really liking the attached location artwork idea. Will you be drawing connections between the settlements and their locations (roads, dirt paths)? Will any of those locations (like hunting lodges) appear in the forest, or in the hills or mountains (mines)? And do you know if we’ll see monasteries?

Morion is my favorite too. Its look just ideal for mercenary band. But I also like kettle hat.
Seconded question about attached locations. Also want to ask if they are permanent and could be rebuild/resettled after being raided and destroyed? Can ruined/abandoned locations can be infested by beasts/zombies/bandits/other enemies?

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