Topic: Paul´s Art Corner

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  • #2733
    Malthus
    Participant

    And I already had hopes for a legendary armor looking like a roman lorica segmentata. :(

    "I am a Paladin!"
    >OMG, Malthus, there are no damn paladins in Battle Brothers...<
    "OK, OK! Then I´m a wrecked down minstrel drunkard pretending to be a paladin, singing so wrong in the midst of battle that even the undead run in fear... Better?!"

    #2745
    Helbrecht
    Participant

    Hi omar,
    Thats not gonna happen. Allrhough there are a lot of fantasy influences, most human equipment will be based on the time period of rhe year 900 to 1300.

    Cheers!

    Thank god you keep true to the setting, Psen.

    #2748
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    And I already had hopes for a legendary armor looking like a roman lorica segmentata.

    I dont want to take all hope from you, legendary items will receive a little more “creative freedom”.

    Thank god you keep true to the setting, Psen.

    Its essential to stick to a theme and style to give the whole game a unique feeling and not be fantasy/medieval game number 1002. Even though there may be some exceptions from the rule the basic tone of the game will not change in the future.

    Cheers!

    Overhype Studios - Let´s roll!

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    #2778
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    Aren’t all fantasy medieval works (be it books, games, movies, etc.) just another fantasy medieval theme after Tolkien invented fantasy medieval theme itself? I like that kind of Warhammer Dark Fantasy-ish feel of your world, but I don’t think that art style alone will made it into an universe of its own. It requires lore and some other elements that would help defining it. After all Orcs are Orcs and undead are undead. Unless Orcs and undead themselves are unique somehow.

    #2788
    GOD
    Participant

    Reintroduced is closer and you’ve also got Conan whose SHIT’S BAD, DON’T TRUST WIZARDS seems prominent – partially through Warhammer though, which is a mishmash of stuff.
    I think the way the lore is communicated through the art and gameplay will start to work better and better as the world gets filled in more and more. We’re still looking at an ecosystem that doesn’t have all the animals introduced to it yet.

    #2796
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Right now our battle brothers land doesnt even have a name :) we concentrated everything on pure gameplay. The juicy lore will come soon enough. Right now we are discussing the final direction of the gsme and whst we want to achieve. The lore and character of the world will be defined together with that.

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    #2824
    Trig
    Participant

    In the pre-release screenshots and in the battle demo, there are all kinds of colourful helmets, but in the actual game, I’ve never seen any or a full helm yet. Were they not implemented?

    #2833
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Yeah i randomly colored some of the helmets. We implemented them but later i had to re-do and reorganize most of the helmets and didnt want to invest the time for colored versions until we are sure that everything works.

    Ill implement lots of colored helmets once i have some free time. I still think its awesome as i drew a lot of inspiration from the morgan bible.

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    #2837
    Holy.Death
    Participant

    I am impressed with how heather shields look. It adds a welcome variation to them. Which brings me to the question: will we see tabards, like the ones we can see in the background of the forum? I understand it’s mostly esthetic so it probably won’t be high on the list of priorities (if it even is), but it’d help in making battle brothers look differently. Or these will be reserved for some special armors?

    #2839
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    Some of the armors include tabards, like the coat of plates or the heraldic coat of plates.
    Personally id like to add them to be worn over your armor just for the looks.
    This probably brings a bit of coding and ui work with it, so i have to push it past my two fellow developers first ;)

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    #2867
    Trig
    Participant

    All for many coloured (ad multicoloured) helmets here. They’ll make a nice additional variation to gear.

    For the shields/flags/tabards however, I’d hope for more historical heraldry approaches. You couldn’t just randomly slap a motif on some random colours, but would have to follow some pretty defined rules of colours, patterns, shapes, etc. Most games tend to ignore this aspect, so I’d hope the heavily-influenced-by-history Battle Brothers would pay more attention to this detail as currently there are some real eye-sores for a history buff in there.

    http://www.classic-castle.com/howto/articles/Heraldry/BasicHeraldry.html

    http://rameset.com/heraldry.htm

    http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wakefield/heraldry.html

    #2873
    PsenBattle
    Keymaster

    To be honest I’m a bit unsure here. Would a travelling band of mercenaries use the heraldic rules of the nobility to paint their company banner? Or would they just go with the most “awesome” design they can come up with?
    Do you have any ressources on historic mercenary bands/banners? Even if they dont really match the period it would be helpful.

    Cheers!

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    #2876
    GOD
    Participant

    I’ve been playing the demo for a bit and I wondered about the old wïederganger skins. Are you planning on using those for anything or have they been scrapped?

    To be honest I’m a bit unsure here. Would a travelling band of mercenaries use the heraldic rules of the nobility to paint their company banner? Or would they just go with the most “awesome” design they can come up with?
    Do you have any ressources on historic mercenary bands/banners? Even if they dont really match the period it would be helpful.
    Cheers!

    It’s important to note that the kind of codified heraldry being talked about here only started to take shape near the tail end of the period that you are dealing with – that is 1100 and upwards, so not early medieval. Some of the ideas that were to result in heraldry taking shape were most likely already around before that, considering the history of war banners, but the rules mentioned above didn’t exist yet.
    I also agree with how a newly formed mercenary group would not necessarily care about heraldic rules, even if they knew them. They could also be using a banner with local importance or a traditional symbol of strength. Adding some wouldn’t hurt though for the purpose of playing someone who does care and there are some really nice heraldic banners to be found. However, it’s not an absolute necessity in order to make your mercenaries come across as believable.

    #2877
    Trig
    Participant

    John Hawkwood is as famous a mercenary boss as they come and his coat of arms is according to all regulations:

    Federico da Montefeltro, a famous condottiere, same:

    Black Army of Hungary, a known mercenary army, also according to the rules:

    So yea. They also didn’t slap a random white skull on a blue and green striped background, just cause it seemed badass, but adhered to certain standards. I mean even the good ol’ pirate jolly roger is, after all, pretty much according to heraldic concepts, a white (metal) skull on a black (colour)background :)

    Basic colours, basic partitions, basic patterns, even charges (main symbols) as diverse as they were, from fists to unicorns, swords to dragons, had certain rules of facing, positioning, etc.

    Even medieval peasant uprisings saw the peasants adapt symbols, such as “Christ the just ruler” or certain patron saints, on their flags, but again, the colour of the flag and the charge (in that case the saint) were properly set.

    In your current set, most are fine. But some are just really off, according to basic heraldry rules of how to combine colours (usually avoid colour on colour, or metal on metal), or positioning of the charge, or charge combinations. Even if you consider going “with the most “awesome” design they can come up with” it can still follow some of these very basic heraldry rules such as how to combine colours and where and how to place the charge.

    It’s not a massive issue, nor one that would require you to rework a ton of things, but if you’re already at it, why not do it right?
    I rather liked how (the otherwise relativelay lame game) Stronghold Kindoms allowed the player to play around with setting up their coat of arms with a bunch of heraldically correct elements.

    #2878
    Trig
    Participant


    These ones in particular seem odd.

    First two practically the same, but the motto banner on first (and the one with the scythe), why a motto banner without a motto? Particularly since the motto banner is really a late medieval thing…

    Why a muslim crescent in Europe? The European crescent would look like this:

    Also, the lines are patterns and I think it a bit strange to have the charge over the pattern. If the banner was partitioned, and one partition would have the pattern the other the charge, it would make more sense. The colour combination blue, black, white is otherwise my favourite so I actually use this shield just for it, but heraldically it makes no sense.

    A crown was a simbol of royalty (usually yellow on coats of arms). Would a king not chop of a mercenary leader’s head if he dared to present himself with a “royal” symbol? And this one also is the charge over the pattern…

    The last two are just odd colour combinations, although from a personal perspective I like the idea of both. But the sword one again, charge over pattern, which is unusual, so would be better to split the shield in half, with one half having the stripes, the other half the sword, while the last one the green stripe rather breaks it. A plain golden purse on a red or black background would be better.

    It’s important to note that the kind of codified heraldry being talked about here only started to take shape near the tail end of the period that you are dealing with – that is 1100 and upwards, so not early medieval. Some of the ideas that were to result in heraldry taking shape were most likely already around before that, considering the history of war banners, but the rules mentioned above didn’t exist yet.
    I also agree with how a newly formed mercenary group would not necessarily care about heraldic rules, even if they knew them. They could also be using a banner with local importance or a traditional symbol of strength. Adding some wouldn’t hurt though for the purpose of playing someone who does care and there are some really nice heraldic banners to be found. However, it’s not an absolute necessity in order to make your mercenaries come across as believable.

    This game has the warhammer (bec de corbin) and the billhook, the kite shield and some high medieval helmets, so it’s not early only. Therefore it must span 900-1200, possibly 1300 even. By 1100 the heraldry was pretty codified according to the basic rules, although the device itself, the charge,t he symbol, was left to the discretion of the noble to chose. Check Norman coats of arms from William the Conqueror’s times… I am not against using outrageous devices, severed orc heads, skeleton necromancer birds, werewolf claws, whatever, but the positioning and colour combinations should have some basic heraldic sense is all.

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