Invictus73

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Sky wrote:

Colossus: Nice simple skill. It stacks with backgrounds. For 2h users with farmer or similar it is a very nice saving skill. Having 100hp guys is not a dream anymore. Very very nice in early game, and remains till the very end. Good as is.

Why in the world would you want your 2H damage dealers taking something from the defense tree? You simply don’t have the Perk room, if you want your 2H guy actually dealing damage.

Sky wrote:

Shield Expert: If your sellsword has a shield he desires this skill. Boosts the defense nicely, very useful thru whole game. Maybe a little too useful. Should be tier 2.

Absolutely not. It’s a standard skill in the right place. You are likely overestimating this skill because the rest of the tier is so bad.

Sky wrote:

Battle Forged: Well… Absolutely OP. From start to finish. You know what I mean when you can barely see the damage done to your armor. Archers? Forget about them, just ignore and go on. Probably should be nerfed or at least put into tier 2.

Same comment as above.

Sky wrote:

Dodge: A nice balanced skill. The balance comes from the initiative, the heavier the armor the less initiative. Has its use, can even help create a light fast unit even mid / late game. Balanced.

Disagree. Apparently, it’s counterproductive to go over 90 or so in Melee Defense. Nimble characters can get there easily; so this is worthless for them. In fact, even your conventional shield tank should go over 80 with Inspiring Presence and Shield Wall.
So this Perk doesn’t really help anyone much, except for a purely offensive character perhaps.

Sky wrote:

Hold Out: Useless.

Absolutely disagree.

Sky wrote:

Fortified Mind: Never met anything that had any of the effects this skill supposed to give immunity for.

Lost Souls?

Sky wrote:

Nine Lives: Rarely useful and never triggered it. If when activated you automatically move back, out of zone of control from enemy unit all is good. If you do not disengage, then absolutely useless and needs to have disengaging effect.

A character that rarely gets hit (e.g. Nimble characters or Shieldwallers with Inspiring Presence) might find some use since you might not get hit again for several battles.

Sky wrote:

Nimble: A very specific skill. Combined with skill dodge, your light assault brigand is happy and safe. Unfortunately my light assault did not make it. Maybe I did something wrong. Probably was too cocky with the illusion of his invincibility. Good skill for specific scenario, would be more useful in tier 1 making it a valid choise.

My Nimble characters (I have 4 on my team) has never been hit more than once by melee in a battle. And there are so few ranged units that they are easily manageable. (And failing that, you can pick Anticipation and level up Ranged Defense, since you will overincrease Melee Defense at level up anyways). So yes, you are doing something wrong.
And it would be ridiculous to have this on tier 1, as everyone and their mistresses would get it.

Sky wrote:

Anticipation: An other early game skill in the second tier. Yes the bonus is very nice but with decent armor is simply not needed. If my light assault had this skill he wouldn’t have died from an arrow one shot in between his eyes. Should be in tier 1 to be a valid choise.

Perhaps the first time I will strongly agree with you on this thread.

Sky wrote:

Steel Brow: First choice at mid/late game. No more fluke shots from enemy archers, no more lucky hits from their melee. Immunity to crits is superb. Perhaps should be a tier 3.

LOL, no. It’s better to not get hit than get hit but avoid getting critted. And if this is a tier 3 skill, then maybe I should be the Queen of England.

Sky wrote:

Please do write your thoughts, suggestions, comments, perhaps skill ideas. Together we are strong, together we are the battle brothers. Hehe.

I did, perhaps too honestly; and I doubt you will consider me a “brother” now! ;)

[Invictus73]

I think a dev said either here or on Steam that the next major update may arrive as early as next week.

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ManaSeed wrote:

Awww… you’re so sweet. (❁´◡`❁)

Hehe, okay I will forgi- (❁´◡`❁)

You are truly a funny one, albeit strangely effeminate for a guy.

ManaSeed wrote:

Greataxe can kill an orc warrior (with helmet and armor) faster. I’ve jot down a little statistics so I’m sure about this.
But greatsword can kill multiple orc youngs faster with its area attacks.

After decapitating my ranged bro once, my berserkers vowed never to use an AoE when adjacent to another brethren. And since I play safe and tightly clustered, that’s almost all the time.

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ManaSeed wrote:

(｡ﾉᗨ<｡)ﾉI laughed when I read until here. He’s basically right about everything regarding best defense. That’s why I laughed. I doubt most players can endure so much sacrifice in offense.

I agree; I certainly couldn’t. And I am as careful and flighty as men get, as I adore “safe,” whether gaming or sex or what not! ;)

ManaSeed wrote:

Most people probably know this, a pure DPS build can turn into half DPS half tank build by SIMPLY PUTTING ON ARMOR ANYTIME. However, you can’t effectively turn a tank build into DPS build by simply taking off the armor. Furthermore, our defense perks are seriously underpowered at the moment. The moment you didn’t hesitate to choose a perk, the perk tree is proven unbalanced.

A most trenchant observation.

ManaSeed wrote:

Yes Steel Cohort is the defense extreme, but I think Dial’s build is just an offensive version of Steel Cohort. Most of my brothers wear woven tunic and none has take any perk which is not meant for offense purpose. Perks like Brawny and Rotation has never crossed my mind when I think about my build.

Are you kidding me? Dialetheia’s DPS guys have to be airlifted in and out, LOL! ;)

As for his team being more defensive than yours, well, that doesn’t mean his team is not offensive — that’s like saying Kim Il Sung wasn’t genocidal because Mao Tse Tung killed more. Compared to Mao, no one looks (more) genocidal; compared to you, no one looks more recklessly offense oriented. You are a sui generis as far as unsafe, on the precipe of disaster gaming is concerned indeed! ;)

ManaSeed wrote:

Also, I do not agree about breaking enemy shields. I don’t think fighting axe is a viable choice for offense build too. Not statically proven, but by looking at the values I think you can kill enemy faster if you attack them instead of their shield.

I don’t either, though my conviction emerges more for the thirst for simplicity than any genuine game knowledge.

ManaSeed wrote:

I personally think closed mail coif (90 armor) + mail shirt (120 armor) is optimal armor setup for a standard brother or aggressor. That helmet is especially handy for providing so much armor despite being very light. This setup is optimal in the sense you can dish out as much damage as possible with just enough armor to keep you alive in most situations. Yeah, I’m wearing hood and woven tunic, so what? I didn’t die.

That’s just too little. Can’t the nastiest enemies hit for over 200 per hit? Assuming you have fifty or so HPs, I’d imagine you want an armor piece that gives you around 200 or more to avoid getting at least one shotted.

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Mashed Zombie wrote:

So you get the most out of Rally and Captain perks. You want to recover at least 40 stamina with a rally to recover all the stamina lost when using Perfect Focus.

Yeah, but what’s the final Resolve number you are trying to reach? It seems to me that’s more important than the starting number, unless you won’t increase it any further at level ups. I am confused.

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ManaSeed wrote:

Something like this?

Offense 4
Defense/Survival 4
Anti-micromanage 2

Damn, you should be my spokesman. Too bad I am not anyone important! ;)

ManaSeed wrote:

That’s incredibly impressive, my best dmg record for a single brother is only 2550. What enemies did you fight? Did that berserker fight all the enemies by himself in frontline? Why?

I think you misinterpreted me, though the failure lies likely with the writer and not the reader. I think you read me to mean that the rest of my brethren did no damage; but what I meant to say was that none of my brethren took damage.

My point was that you can fight both safely and explosively. Pow!

ManaSeed wrote:

Seeing people chosen wrong perks/stats or removed wrong members. My best pleasure. ψ(｀∇´)ψ

Well, you should have seen me posted the following before. ↓

When melee def is 92, orc youngs have about 5% (7/130) chance to hit me.
When melee def is 80, orc youngs have about 6% (12/180) chance to hit me.
When melee def is 68, orc youngs have about 11% (14/126) chance to hit me.

The experiment above is performed when 6 orc youngs have surrounded me. *Result might not be extremely precise because I didn’t separate the overwhelming effect which enemies inflicted on me, but the result should be practically precise/useful as enemy will overwhelm me in combat. As a reminder, I think different enemies might have different chance to hit.

I did read that post. But I still don’t understand what you are trying to say. But I take it: Since minimum chance to hit is five percent, and 92 Melee Defense got you there, you do not need to increase it higher?

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ManaSeed wrote:

I’m no optic master but it’s weird if you can’t even see the enemy at distance 2, which is also the attack range of your spear, even it’s at night.

Exactly; I understand that the game uses “abstractions,” but even abstractions have to have some interface with reality. No one doubts that helmets do inhibit your vision somewhat (though peripherally mainly) and nights do that more. But not to this degree, and that represents a failure in abstraction. It also hurts gameplay needlessly.

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ManaSeed wrote:

Also, you should be more specific about the term “best team”. Best offense team, best defense team, best overall team, best begin-to-end team, best foolproof/amateur team.

A fair point. I should have been more precise. My definition of “best,” since I am a synthesizer or blender or moderate in all things, would be something like: The approach that best blends survival and killing power or offense and defense?

ManaSeed wrote:

Information is never enough. But maybe it’s time for some statistics and concentrated summaries with bullet points.

Yeah, screenshots of my character stats and select battle summaries would be useful. For instance, Mashed Zombie says melee DPS guys are either too fragile or cannot DPS, but I strongly disagree. One battle summary screen that shows that one of my “bersekers” did 4000 damage in six rounds (with no one on the team incurring any damage) would bely his claim, for instance. Unfortunately, print screen is broken for my keyboard at the moment, so those will have to wait.

ManaSeed wrote:

DPS wise, I think 10 more melee skill can’t compensate the difference in 20 max fatigue (15 fatigue cost for one hit with 2h weapon). One more hit makes a superb difference if you have Battle Flow. Also, you don’t need that much melee skill due to upper limit of chance to hit (95%). Dps build does deal more dmg today, if they survived the whole day.

Exactly.

ManaSeed wrote:

You need it. Even 110 melee skill doesn’t give 90% chance against enemy shieldwall. HOWEVER, you might not have spare stat points for that, if your build is not offense build.

But what about Melee Defense? Please post ASAP before I delete all my Swordmasters! ;)

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ManaSeed wrote:

I thought we are talking about almost the same thing, taking out fragile targets with high threat?

Rereading it, you are absolutely right. Forgive me; we read too quickly these days, especially when it comes to what we see online!

ManaSeed wrote:

May I ask why do you use aimed shots? Because I find normal shot gives higher aggregated damage(accuracy) per fatigue cost. I never face serious issue of ammo, though I used all arrows most of the time. Incidentally, I didn’t use bow anymore. I also plan to replace the last range brother with hybrid(melee + range) brother.

The real answer is that I am still a clueless novice! ;)

It’s probably because Quick Shots missed so much when I used them at lower levels to the point where the overall impression that they suck stuck. First impressions are ever important.

ManaSeed wrote:

Heh, who do you think you’re talking to? Without billhooks, Perfect Focus has only about 50% power. Also, I think billhook has to be my MVP weapon though my favorite weapon is greatsword.

LOL, sorry. I thought you were some tough talking dude who thought they were farming implements not intended for serious soldiers like yourself! ;)

Why greatsword over greataxe? In my brief tests, greataxes seem to consistently hit harder.

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Mashed Zombie wrote:

Primary Stats: stamina, melee attack, melee defence
Secondary Stats: health, range defence
(When increasing stats, don’t put more then a 100 attack or defence. You shouldn’t need it)

You may be right about this: In fact, 90 may be all you need. I find my 110 Melee Defense Swordmaster (120 or so with Inspiring Presence?) gets hit just as much as my 92 Melee Defense version. Further, someone also posted that pushing it over 90 doesn’t boost your avoidance chance.

Mashed Zombie wrote:

3-4 Sellswords Of Doom
Fast Adaption, Sundering Strikes, Executioner, Bullseye, Close Combat Archer, Perfect Focus, Bags And Belts, Pathfinder, Quick Hands, Battle Flow
Hunting Bow, Noble Sword, Heater Shield, Billhook, Arrow Quiver x2, Chain Mail Shirt, Closed Mail Coif

Hmmm, Battle Flow really lets you get that many shots off? Hmmm. Perhaps I should switch out Brawny then.

I will experiment with it on my melee DPS guys as well.

Mashed Zombie wrote:

1 Adventurous Noble Of Doom
Battle Forged, Hold Out, Colossus, Rotate, Bags And Belts, Pathfinder, Quick Hands, Brawny, Captain, Rally

Primary Stats: resolve, melee defence
Secondary Stats: stamina, melee attack, range attack

Crossbow, Mace, Heater Shield, Billhook, Bolt Quiver x2, Coat Of Scale, Kettle Helm

This build requires 65+ starting resolve. Which means you will need to find an adventurous noble with either fearless or brave. The Adventurous Noble Of Doom has only one job: keep your archers shooting. Rotate is their for emergencies.

Why do you need 65+ starting Resolve? Explain a bit more? Perhaps a better question is: What final number are you trying to reach?

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Mashed Zombie wrote:

Why bother with hedge knights at all when swordmasters are vastly superior. I find that melee dps builds either die easy or just don’t deal that much more damage then melee tanks, making them pretty useless.

Swordmasters are indeed “vastly superior” defensively, but Hedge Knights make better damage characters, mainly because you need high Fatigue to utilize Perfect Focus, and Hedge Knights have 20 more on average, allowing you to swing at least once more per turn (and one more hit with a two hander?; well, that’s one extra kill per turn in some situations). And while melee damage builds can be fragile, I’ve built them in a way that makes them quite sturdy without losing too much damage potential. That was the whole point of this thread, combining the Steel Cohort’s survivalist and Dialetheia’s massive burst damage approaches.

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NewAgeOfPower wrote:

My issue with your design for your swordmaster is that his armor level is wayy too low.

Minimum chance to hit is 5% – that means, no matter how much dodge you have, you’ll get hit 5% of the time. An Orc Boss can easily pump out 200+ damage on a hit, so armoring your swordmaster. to at least survive the freak hit happening is advisable.

I agree. This is why I stick at least Lamellar Harness on all melee toons.

Also, seriously? 88 Melee Defense on a Swordmaster character is normal; it’s nothing even remotely special. I have a current one at 110 without the Melee Defense starter Trait; with level up luck and that Trait, 120 is probably doable unbuffed.

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PsenBattle wrote:

And here comes some more to sweeten up your weekend:
Our very first real Legendary Item “Ghostbane”. Before you ask, the screen is a fake again, the dmg numbers etc are not accurate.
@Trig: This may look somehow familiar to you

Cheers!

At 50% of original size:

Goodness, that looks amazing.

When? :)

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ManaSeed wrote:

Not sure if it’s just me. The idea of “expendable recruit” never come across my mind. I only choose the recruit that is likely to become best of the best, until they got bested or replaced by even better recruit.

When you have an end game team, then, no; no one is expendable. But early on, it’s reasonable to have spare parts to finish a quest with good rewards.

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ManaSeed wrote:

>> After that they can switch to billhooks or other distance weapons to help out in melee combat. They are less efficient against armored enemies, but with crossbows they can help out a lot, so they stay relevant even in late game.
Why everyone is suggesting my ranged brothers to use melee weapons? Just what stats have you increased for your archers!? щ(ºДºщ)

1. Opposing melees may have closed in on you, and thus you may no longer use bows or crossbows. 2. You may have run out of ammunition.

Ideally, of course, your archers want to shoot, not melee. But don’t underestimate billhooks; they can do a number, and safely (since they are two tile weapons).

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