ThorHC

[ThorHC]

IgorBrehm wrote:

I believe it’s not a good idea to have perks which only makes other perks’s traits better in such a direct way. Every perk needs to remain the way they are, independent. Because of that, I still insist that the way to go about the nimble perk is to change it’s name and turn it into an active skill with fatigue cost to activate, my main idea now is to transform it into a skill that when activated increases your mdef and rdef for a turn, as if your brother was spending all his power into evading blows for that turn. The bonus would still exponentially decrease with the more armor a brother had, making sense both in regards to realism and also being a balanced option.

Well then welcome in 5% RNG hell…

[ThorHC]

I was thinking about Nimble characters for quite a while.
Bonus movement is right way to go. I dont know if plain extra 1 tile movement for free isnt too much…

My points:
1. Nimble characters should be catchable by not nimble characters – if you grant them plain extra movement per turn then Nimble ranged characters can break the game, because they can create a gap every turn which you cannot compansate next round.
2. The Nimble bonus should be apllied only for cloth and leather type armour. No max Fatigue percentage conditions etc…
Just pure and simple: naked/cloth/leather gives bonus, metal does not.
3. Nimble perk should not give you any damage reduction – by damage reduction you just create quasi-heavy-armoured character.
4. Light armoured characters with Nimble perk should be an viable alternative/option to heavy armour build.

So lets sum it up:
Light armour strategy means that every hit counts and you go to the battle expecting to not be hit at all. Your worst enemy is guaranteed 5% hit chance. Best way to avoid being hit in this scenario is to not be attacked at all…

Nimble perk should grant cost reduction on Footwork / Rotation perk. Both abilities now cost 3AP+25Fatigue. Nimble perk should make them 2AP+10Fatigue ability = nearly regular movement costs.
What does it mean:
1. You can actually ignore enemy zone of control with Nimble character wearing non-metalic armour.
2. You can reliably advance 1-tile, attack with 5AP and reliably withdraw 1-tile.
3. You can attack 5AP and reliably withdraw 2-tiles.
4. You can quite reliably retreat character with this Perk if he is not fleeing or is not completly exhausted.
5. Nimble character will have hard time against more agile opponents – f.e. wolves and wolfriders.
6. Nimble character will have problems in limited space and if overwhelmed by opponents.
7. You will have to invest in ranged defense and use cover.

[ThorHC]

This change will make easy fights more boring and hard fights more… uhmmm… unbeatable.
On the other hand – less RNG always means more brain.

Still I dont know if I like it or not… never happens anyway (unless you roll critical success of 18).

[ThorHC]

kem wrote:

3) autouse recover (if bro has it) on skipping turns

Yeah, it should be completly passive perk in skip turn event. Right now it can be “abused” with Berserker perk.

[ThorHC]

Good idea…

[ThorHC]

Well, it would still be great if background have more impact on the gameplay.
Imagine f.e. Eunuch background to be completly immune to the Hex – it would be great to have him on the roster when you fight Hexes. Every background should have some really potent bonus and some weaknesses. Then you have to think twice which background you need to add to your small company.

[ThorHC]

Developers stated multiple times that they dont want to add any magic-related brothers to the band roster. However, it would be really nice addition for a next DLC to have some unique quest lines with some unique rewards – like a battle maiden, giant, dwarf, priest or magician. There is also room for improving camp features with noncombatant members of the band.
I would also like to see real castle sieges.

[ThorHC]

Great idea!
It should be an option in the game settings…

[ThorHC]

I just want to make your statement clear:

You would risk to sent veteran brother with 160Fatigue and great mdef and rdef to the battle naked (or half naked with armour without Fatigue loss) with bare dagger to keep maximum Fatigue pool and expect to have immortal unit with this…
You can be stunned, sniped, poisoned, bleded, staggered, rooted, netted, asleep, charmed, fleeing and you would risk jewel of your company to go there without armour with an ability you cant use every round if you insist on combining it with recover perk. I can see a problem combining suggested Nimble perk with Indomitable perk, but it can be managed by simply making Indomitable not reducing damage done to the Fatigue pool.

I think it would be much better use if you take it as a one-round life insurance when things go dire with light armoured brother. You activate Nimble to survive the round in the front line by boosting his HP pool with your Fatigue, if you get hit you have to get out for atleast another 2 rounds to get Fresh again to risk the frontline. If you are not hit you just spent 4AP for nothing and nulified your Fatigue recovery.

[ThorHC]

When you pop recover only half of the accumulated fatigue is recovered, so you cant actually “reset” the loop. You can get max. 50% of your Fatigue pool, that means roughly 60points in 130fatigue brother. That means half Fatigue/HP pool, also means half Initiation, you also waste whole turn to recover.

Moreover dodging blows increase Fatigue by 2 points, hit increase Fatigue by 5 (+10 for maces). Average weapon damage is roughly around 40 – you can also take critical head bonus to account.

You cant feed this as a reliable loop.

[ThorHC]

kem wrote:

Yes, thats why I mentioned ini shenanigans.
1) Use skill turn 1
2) Tank for 2 turns
3) Recover at the end of turn 2
4) Repeat

If your fat & mdef is sufficient – immortality.

I dont get it… where you get tank for 2 turns?
It would be a 1-round ability, so you spent 4AP and 15Fatigue for the boost. If the brother is fresh, then it will boost your Health (f.e.130Fatigue + 70HP = 200HP). If he gets hit, he really gains Fatigue considerably, he loose his Initiative, he loose his Zone of control

Recover ability 2nd round will remove 1/2 Fatigue back, however you cannot activate Nimble again that round (it cost 4AP) so this round any hit goes directly to HP pool. Going naked to the battle would still be a suicide.

I dont find this model overpowered or immortal as you depict it. It gives you relatively safe round, whenever the brother is fresh.

[ThorHC]

Recover perk spent 9AP, so you cannot use (spam) it together with suggested Nimble activity (4AP).
Without armour you would take full damage to Fatigue (+crit bonus in head), you have to consider +15Fatigue skill cost +any additional damage to Fatigue (f.e. maces).
I would say with average 130Fatigue you can take max. 3 hits in mid/late game.

[ThorHC]

I think the dodge/nimble issue runs much deeper to the very core of the game design.

Heavy armour offers you the most essential thing -> consistency in survival.
The heavy armoured brother is consistently able to withstand some bad luck. It gives you time to react and adapt to the situation – this saves lives!

The reasoning behind nimble character is sort of a glass canon. You trade consistency for other benefits – while this can lead to positive outcome in the low/mediocre threat battle, in the prolonged tough battles against overwhelming odds (sounds familiar?) the chances of dead brother are higher.

So the question is:
How to make nimble characters consistent in survival, while different from heavy armour?

The idea of damage reduction is simply idea of boosting armour under some (often unconsistent) circumstances… and this I dont like, it doesnt bring anything new to the table.

Personally, I see the way in more movement in the battle. I found most of the battles quite static as I find myself using rotation and footwork to change places (again consistency rules).

So here is my proposition:

-Initiative should be deciding factor in zone of control management – breaking zone of control should be separate entity from normal melee defense. High Initiative brothers can easily break zone of control, while heavy armour brothers have tough time at all.
Also high Initiative brothers have stronger zone of control then heavy armour brothers.

-Dodge perk gives you free 1-tile movement per round (=free of AP cost) when you are successful in breaking zone of control, this can be combined with footwork perk, it cannot be combined with rotation perk.

-Nimble perk gives you active ability (cost 4AP, 15Fatigue) – when the brother is successfully hit the damage which goes through armour will damage Fatigue pool instead of HP pool – if Fatigue pool is depleted then the leftover damage goes to HP pool.

[ThorHC]

Character backgrounds additional bonus/malus:
Adventurous noble – resolve and morale boost if equipped by legendary items / resolve and morale debuff if equipped with non 3+tier items
Apprentice – minor increase of item repair rate / resolve, mood, melee debuff when comrade die in battle
Assassin – free dagger mastery perk / only 1 assassin per game
Bastard – additional melee buff fighting humans / decreased payment and opinion from noble houses
Beggar – greatly increased rate of loyal and spartan trait / greatly increased rate of drunkard and dumb trait
Bowyer – decreased prices in fletcher shops / can desert company if dissatisfied or lower morale
Brawler – its fine as it is now
Butcher – free crippling strikes perk / melee weapons restricted only to sharp weapons
Caravan hand – small increase of movement speed when on caravan quest / increased rate of Greedy trait
Companion – free nine lives perk / none
Cultist – will not rout / headgear restricted only to Cultist Hood or Glimpse of Davkul
Cripple – greatly increased rate of Deadwish/Determined/Brave trait / random perma injury (as it is now)
Daytaler – none / none
Deserter – free Craven trait instead of plain -10 resolve debuff
Disowned Noble – increased payment and opinion from noble houses / increased rate of Greedy / Dastard trait
Eunuch – immune to Hexes Charm / free Insecure trait
Farmhand – greatly increased rate of Iron Lungs/Strong/Athletic trait / resolve debuff fighting monsters or undead
Fisherman – all throwing nets used by this character are recovered (for free) after the battle / resolve debuff when fighting in desert and ice terrain
Flagellant – free Hold out perk + will not bleed out / cannot be healed in the chapel + prolonged HP recovery
Gambler – minor chance to turn miss in to hit / free Greedy perk
Gravedigger – resolve, mood and melee buff fighting all sorts of undead / melee weapons restricted only to blunt weapons
Graverobber – minor extra gold loot after every battle / onetime renown decrease when joining company
Hedge Knight – free Brawny perk / expensive upkeep
to be continued…

[ThorHC]

I just think that all recruits/brothers are very similar to each other and there should be a much more diversity (in terms of attributes, abilities, battle efficiancy).
All backgrounds should have its strenghts and weaknesses. I do not see any real difference between so many backgrounds (shepherd, vagabund, daytaler, mason, eunuch, beggar, butcher, gambler, houndmaster, messenger, miller, poacher, refugee), it´s just doesn´t matter at all…

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