Danubian

[Danubian]

Thats really cool stuff!

[Danubian]

Hey, just a very tiny thing, regarding this screenie:

I think youre missing the back wall, at this projection at least something should be barely seen behind the front wall, no?

[Danubian]

It cant be true because ive had many many cases when my one handed or two handed guys were shot at and not hit with first arrow/bolt.

Probably just confirmation bias.

[Danubian]

GG how many warriors did you kill total?

[Danubian]

Same here, you guys posted couple of things i definitely need to try.

[Danubian]

Jaffai wrote:

I dont want to sound cocky or anything, but you are spreading your points all over the board.

Maybe? My first priority is to get mobility (the skill that reduces movement penalties in elevetions so i can chase stupid goblins), get those utility skills that allow for weapon swapping, get that skill that reduces fatigue from armors (silly me assuming that armors are something that actually makes your bros survive in melee), and then pretty much focus on getting that skill which prevents them from panicking when fighting enemies that attack morale (those ghosts). I never took that when i played first time so when i ran into ghosts they all broke and ran away.

I will however try out some things you posted.

Jaffai wrote:

Your guy has too much max fatigue if you are playing with rally. I dont see point to build up hp that much, but maybe I’m wrong.

I wasnt playing with rally, my thinking was “lets build a melee with a lot of max fatigue that can go out dish damage and survive”. Thats what i kept going for, until someone say “ditch the shield and go for nimble” so i tried that out, and i must say im loving. Other than the fact that ive now encountered another problem. Now i can survive Orc Warriors (unless my bros get surrounded), the problem is, i cant deal enough damage fast enough with 1handed weapons to kill them before they surround me (which is why i keep saying that fighting a couple of them with this build is alright, but i cant beat them if theres more than like 8 or 10). If so they will surround my nimble tankers and then the rest goes for bow/crossbowmen/second line melees with 2 handed weapons and slaughter them.

Perhaps i need to ditch nimble and focus on some sort of 2 handed build (instead of trying to survive them, try to deal as much damage as possible).

Jaffai wrote:

Difficulty level doesnt make orc warriors harder, if you hover your cursor over difficulty levels you see what is difference between them.

Yeah exactly. It doesnt. But it should. There should be the lowest difficulty setting where you dont need to perfectly optimize your party to do some things. You know for people who enjoy playing casual tactical battles (like i do). BB right now is just too much unforgiving, maybe youre right, maybe there is a way to figure out a perfect build that would allow one to beat any enemy. Its just that 99% of people playing games are not willing to put 10s of hours into figuring that out, and i feel that if this is the game design philosophy, devs might end up making a game that appeals to a very small number of players that want a very specific (very hard) experience. And IMO thats bad.

[Danubian]

Anonymous wrote:

To Danubian

as for the bows vs crossbows thing, I will grant you that you don’t have to do anything and every archer can fire twice in a round. So can my crossbowmen. They can also move 2 spaces. I’ll post a screen shot of a crossbowman build tomorrow but the premise is that the only drawback crossbows have is their absurdly expensive reload. And this can be circumvented by 2 perks. Quick Hands and Bags and Belts. Together with a 2-handed weapon, your crossbowman will have 3 spare shots and they don’t have to be reloaded. Which means 2 rounds guaranteed of 2 shots per round. That’s more than enough opportunity to get a kill and then start landing 1 shot kills from there on out every round. And since I only use 1 shot per round there is no need to carry extra ammo beyond your 1 quiver. Also, crossbows can still be fired while in melee. They can’t be reloaded but they can be fired. Bow’s can’t.

As for where bows hands down beat crossbows is with the Perfect Focus feat. Reloading crossbows just costs too much fatigue for that. But I don’t see it as a bad thing because that means I can get Rage instead and have +50% damage per shot and that combined with +50% from Close Combat Archer means I have +100% damage (same as 2 shots) and all that damage combined with the fact that crossbows have better armor damage and higher %armor piercing means your guys will reliably kill in 1 shot.

Now this is something completely new to me that i havent even thought about, and something i need to try out.

[Danubian]

Anonymous wrote:

To Danubian
as for 10+ archers, you shouldn’t have that many as that leaves you with no flexibility and that’s why you can’t kill the orcs.

Good because i dont have 10+ archers, in fact every one of those characters is also equipped with a crossbow (i was experimenting after some things you said) and a two handed weapon, and they arent dedicated archers, they also have melee stats.

Anonymous wrote:

spearwall + crossbows doesn’t beat orcs, it only buys you more time to soften up their key units before the real (melee) fight starts

Well im not using spearwall vs orcs, its pointless.

What i was doing was shooting bows and crossbows at them until they close in on my nimble armored fighters, and then i switch to two handed weapons and deal damage from range (if possible).

[Danubian]

Meeky wrote:

Sorry, I’m a bit confused. Are you saying this character…

…has the same build and equipment as THIS character?

Nope thats not what im saying.

What he posted to me appeared as paper armored character which he claimed could take on 2 or 3 orc warriors which i simply couldnt believe, so i offered one of my own characters that i designed to fight orc warriors using the nimble build someone suggested earlier. You can clearly see that they are not the same build. I did however state that i do have roughly same weapons as he did though. Every one of those archers has both a crossbow and a two handed weapon as a backup.

[Danubian]

As for claim that your guy can take 2 or 3 orc warriors im confused.

This is a character from my last build.

He cant take a single orc warrior on (well he can obviously survive but it would take turns and turns to kill them, i just dont have weapons that can inflict enough damage on hits to kill orc warriors fast enough so that i could handle them in big numbers, even with nimble they do hit me occasionally, and even with 1handed orc weapons all it takes is a couple of hits – like 3 or 4 – to kill this fully armored brother).

So whats the catch? I have all the same weapons you have, except for that axe.

[Danubian]

Jaffai wrote:

Another note, noone is forcing you to fight them.

If there is a part of the content that is so powerful that even you admit its possibly too powerful unless you make a perfect skill progression designed to counter that content specifically – that means we have a balancing issue.

Also i can make the same argument you did:

Another note, noone is stopping you from playing on highest difficulty setting, if brutal challenge is your thing (whether it be overall difficulty which i find alright or specific enemies, in which case i call Orc Warriors brutally OP).

[Danubian]

Jaffai wrote:

This is ranged brother for you, who can take down orc warriors.

On his own or as a member of that party?

[Danubian]

RusBear wrote:

As I wrote earlier – the party of level 11 with normal backgrounds, proper buildup (and diverse – and that’s good) and normal gear – could easily defeat the most powerful opponents. The issue is that for the early and middle stages of the game Orcs Warriors – a mortal enemy. 5-6 orc warriors smear your party level 4-5 for a few rounds without a chance. It’s all clear and the dispute itself is only in the way that some say “I won”, while others say – “it is impossible”. Perhaps, they were just different levels of troops :). However, it should be noted this time, and here I agree with the author topic – no enemy except Orc Warrior and enemies – with a crossbow does not depend so much on the merciless randomness in the game. I had a case when an orc warrior one surrounded by three of my brothers stood at a low level – I had 6 misses streak to him with a chance to 60+. But he answered 4 times hit in the head and almost killed two of my 11 brothers leveled in excellent armor to perk cancellation critical blow to the head and perk on umeshenny damage through armor. These are the things I’m really annoyed. rand is good for gameplay … maybe, but he should also be a part of the balance sheet and not a moment when all your tactical moves and the right pumping fly to hell

Personally i have no issues with game randomness. My issue is with the balance where once you are level 10+ there are still enemies (non unique ones) that are insanely difficult to fight, and primarily because they have stupid amounts of armor AND the ability to kill your high level brothers in best possible armors with best possible weapons in just 3 hits (the ability to destroy most shields in 1 hit for example is just broken, it defeats the whole point of a shield).

Like i said many times, i understand that there are people who enjoy brutal difficulty, where you can lose a level 10 brother in 3 hits. And i will repeat: if you want brutal difficulty, use higher game difficulty setting. The base game at the lowest possible difficulty setting should be a lot more casual, without opponents that are stupidly OP and needlessly difficult to defeat. And again im not against game providing opponents that are though, however, those opponents should be reserved for special battles and unique situations, they shouldnt be roaming the map in such insane numbers (i have previously encountered a group of like 8 orc warriors and 7 or 8 berserkers, that battle was insane).

And i still stand by my original point about Goblins. While goblins are not simply OP as Orc Warriors, they are ridiculously annoying to fight. Fights against goblins are huge waste of time, simply because you will spend more time chasing them around the map than actually fighting them. Once youve done that 5 or 10 times, it starts getting really repetitive and boring. And the game doesnt provide any economic or fun way of dealing with Ambushers (weve been through dogs and how they are not a fail safe strategy/magical solution in this regard).

[Danubian]

Make sure you link it here please once you make it.

[Danubian]

Anonymous wrote:

None of the enemies are OP. They all have several weaknesses and it’s up to the player to exploit them.

Show me a battle where you killed 10+ Orc Warriors. Screenshot, video, anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Crossbows beat bows, hands down. They hit harder than an aimed shot, cost 5 less fatigue including reload, costs only 5 stamina if you don’t reload, have +20% to hit, and can be fast swapped via Quick Hands for 2 shots or even 3 with the Berserk skill. And using a goblin crossbow gives neat tactical options with its knock-back ability. Crossbows wreck everything except Lost Souls and skeletons.

But they dont beat bows once you have level 10+ archers with 70+ archery who can hit twice per turn with normal shot. At least not according to my experiments. In any case if you have 6 crossbows youre not going to kill a single Orc Warrior before it gets to your first line. And thats an indication that an enemy is not balanced.

Anonymous wrote:

Orcs – Their ranged capabilities suck so they HAVE to come to you. Pick your ground and fight or just fall back to the edge of the map and retreat to fight them on another map. Use spearwall to give your ranged brothers 2-4 turns to shoot up the soft berserkers or young. Your highest priority targets should be any orc with an axe so they don’t have time to break your shields (use goblin nets to pin axe carrying orc warriors and buy more shooting time). Carry extra shields. When the melee combat is joined, move your ranged brothers into the backs of your men. They’ll have decent enough shots but more importantly the orcs won’t be able to knock your frontliners out of position.

Again next time you fight 10+ Orc Warriors take a screenshot or better yet make a video, i would really like to see how you fight those totally-not-OP enemies with spearwall and crossbows.

[Author]

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