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  • in reply to: Gameflow: How you end up playing? #5048

    >> Also, it seems like the main city attracts more mercenaries?
    Not sure if I understand your question right, but city(should be only one) has more available recruits than town.

    >> You have a better game though, my Sith Master!
    And when or if I ultimately surpass you, then there can only be one of us!

    Ehehehe….really? (*´∀`*)ゞ (Maybe I’m quite good… or better than him!)
    Let me google something first, then we can have a long and good chat-

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    >> well, perhaps not this any longer, as I’ve matured!
    _φ(□□ヘ) Someone says a humble person will never tell you he is humble. Same goes for mature person.
    _φ(□□ヘ) But this a friggin lie because today I saw a matured person said he was matured.

    >> It’s a small sample, but greataxe seems more effective against really heavily armored foes?
    I’ve been wondering about that too. All I know is greataxe can kill a single orc warrior faster than greatsword. For Perfect Flow brothers, I think it is more stamina-efficient to take out orc warrior one by one with greataxe, rather than using greatsword area attack on multiple orc warriors.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    There is something that hinders me from comparing greatsword and greataxe in full extent, without collecting a lot of data. Let’s take a look at the following.

    – Greatsword against Orc Warrior with helmet & armor, skill used: Overhead Strike, skill description 105~133 dmg, 152~192 armor dmg
      First hit:
         181, 178, 172, 181, 171, 192 armor dmg

      Second hit:
         99 armor dmg, 14 body dmg
         102 armor dmg 22 body dmg
         108 armor dmg, 3 body dmg
         88 armor dmg, 22 body dmg

    ✭ when it hits for head(helmet) ==> it only dealt 120 helmet dmg, destroyed the helmet then no other extra dmg is dealt to head

    Greatsword can deal at least 170 armor dmg in first hit ==> 170-120 = 50 helmet dmg (remaining force/impact after breaking the helmet)

    [body dmg/armor dmg] ratio for Overhead Strike = [(105+133)/2] / [(152+192)/2] = 119 / 172 = 70%

    Let’s convert the remaining force (50 helmet dmg) into head damage = 50 x 0.7 = 35 head dmg (but in reality zero head dmg was dealt)

    The penetrated force reduces drastically (far more than simple calculation), you can also see this from damage shown for second hit. This applies the same way for Greataxe. (probably the same for all weapons)

    Greataxe’s Split Man hits both head and body, so it can break both helmet and armor. Making it hard to compare Greatsword and Greataxe extensively without collecting a lot of data.

    in reply to: Defense Skill Tree Discussion #5044

    >> Also, what does the rest of Holy Death’s team look like?

    in reply to: Utility Skill Tree Discussion #5042

    Me: m(_ _)m Sorry, I made a mistake here. Swordmaster has 15 more melee def than Hedge Knight, not 10 more.
    Invictus: (By the way, Swordmaster has fifteen Melee Defense on Hedge Knight, not ten.)

    Can’t tell if you acute or neglectful (* ˚᷄ 艸 ˚᷅ *)

    I had hitherto used Hedge Knights, but wouldn’t extra fifteen Melee Defense on Swordmaster be determinative for a Shieldwall guy?

    It’s absolutely determinative for a pure shieldwall guy. But I believe that’s not what you wanted. You have a specific preferred offense/defense ratio for the new guy, right?

    >> In fact, I might deploy 2 Hedge Knight tanks and 2 Swordmaster tanks and just compare?

    Nothing is better than comparing 2 things in real situation, if it’s possible (sometimes it’s not possible to try something without deleting/replacing half of your crew ).

    in reply to: Gameflow: How you end up playing? #5041

    What’s the best way to recycle mercenaries on offer for hire until you get the one you want? I Just hire and dismiss nonstop to renew the hiring pool. Is there a quicker and lesss costly way?

    If you prefer result over hardship, you can do this:
    Every 4 days, there are new arrival on hire list and previously existed ones might (or might not) leave. City has most people to hire. Do not enter the city for 8~12 days (or more), and all old recruits will be gone. Save the game.

    *The hire list is NOT DETERMINED until you have entered the city.

    for rally bots, you need Fearless for the highest Resolve?

    For rally brothers, Adventurous noble with Fearless trait probably yields highest Resolve available, so far none has stated an objection against this.

    “Fearless” and “Strong” Adventurous Noble with sixty sixy Resolve!!!

    It might be shameless for me to say this, but I think I’ve told you quite an amount of information for past few days.

    To be fair, I think it’s time for you to teach me black magic.


    Since you look like you could use any kind of info, I simply copy paste some very limited data from my BB compendium(for my personal use), so broken english is not fixed and everything is messy as hell. Ask if you find anything strange. Because Full Force might modify your damage based on armor, I jot down the raw damage numbers (on the basis of tooltip). Accuracy factor is not included at all.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greatsword against Orc Warrior with helmet, skill used: Overhead Strike, skill description 105~133 dmg, 152~192 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    4, 4, 2, 4 = average of 3.5

    >> not sure, but it seems if dmg increases a little more (around skill description 105~142 dmg, 152~205 armor dmg, it takes 1 less hit to kill Orc Warrior
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greatsword against Orc Young, skill used: Overhead Strike, skill description 105~133 dmg, 152~192 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    2, 2, 2
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greatsword against Orc Young with helmet & body armor, skill used: Overhead Strike, skill description 105~162 dmg, 152~234 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    1, 1
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greatsword against Orc Berserker, skill used: Overhead Strike, skill description 105~133 dmg, 152~192 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greataxe against Orc Warrior with helmet, skill used: Split Man, skill description 120~154 dmg, 234~301 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    3, 3, 4, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 3, 4, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greataxe against Orc Warrior with helmet, skill used: Split Man, skill description 120~157 dmg, 234~307 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    3, 4
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greataxe against Orc Warrior with helmet, skill used: Split Man, skill description 120~198 dmg, 234~386 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    3, 3, 2, 3
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    – Greataxe against Orc warrior without helmet, skill used: Split Man, skill description 120~154 dmg, 234~301 armor dmg
    Hits to kill
    3, 2, 2

    in reply to: Gameflow: How you end up playing? #5019

    ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑
    What kind of black magic is this? щ(ºДºщ)

    Out of 20+ WildmanS I encountered, only 2 have Strong trait.

    Their stats are not even close to yours! щ(ºДºщ)

    Your Widlman’s max fatigue is maxed out and melee skill is almost maxed out.

    He is good enough to compete for “Strongest Wildman Top 5”.

    in reply to: Utility Skill Tree Discussion #5017

    DIFFERENCE between Hedge Knight & Swordmaster (you can ignore the hp and resolve difference because they have minimal impact)
    Hedge Knight ==> +20 max fatigue, +10 initiative, +20 hp
    Swordmaster ==> +10 melee skill, +10 melee def, +5 resolve

    m(_ _)m Sorry, I made a mistake here. Swordmaster has 15 more melee def than Hedge Knight, not 10 more.

    I find Brawny to be a great perk if I want to use heavily armored brothers: they really need all the fatigue boost they can get. It combines well with some heavier weapons and perks that increase damage as well.

    @ Invictus
    I totally forgot about this point. I agree. With higher initiative you can act fast when things go wrong, and with higher max fatigue you can use more shieldwall. So Brawny should be better perk than Battle Flow for tanking purpose.

    in reply to: dark topic but good for time period #5013

    >> Or vampires appear as humans if they move on the world map…

    Era 0442, March, Day 11
    Vampires have been begun to mimic human travelers and vagabonds. However, humans are tenacious creatures. Within days, survivors have spread the rumor throughout the kingdom. Out of fear, the citizens are requesting the King to dictate a new law to forbid travelers from wearing hoods. The King responded, “Such folklore is absurd! Cowards can turn away and run from any hooded fellow they come across!”

    Era 0442, March, Day 28
    As unspoken rule, human travelers will always take off their hood to prove themselves when they see another group of humans from afar. May the God of Sun keep us away from the harm of Vampires.

    in reply to: Utility Skill Tree Discussion #5012

    >> I thought you use Woven Tunics on all your melees?

    Unlike most people, I’m not passionate to share my stories like writing web diary.
    (o´・∀・`) But you looked desperately interested so I guess it can’t be helped.

    I still have 2 very old brothers not wearing woven tunics and hoods. Both wear closed mail coif, one wear Heraldic Mail and another wear Gambeson.

    If you’ve never tried pure DPS(woven tunic) build before, you might not understand the stress. You might not able to imagine how concentrated I am when I command my woven tunic brother with increased melee+ranged+max fatigue, which have no armor and defense stat improvement at all. These are the only 3 melee attackers with absolutely no defense properties, other melee attackers have increased ranged defense(thus they’ve sacrificed ranged skill/weapon). Woven tunic with no defense properties is no joke, so I’m hesitating if I should put more brothers like this into the team.

    My team is meant for experiment purpose and still under development(because there’re always people who pop up and provide new info, like one background is better than another…. argghhh I’m angry), rather than the final version of my ideal team. So I’m keeping these 2 oasis brother for the time being. Also, the gambeson and heraldic mail look kinda cool. So not all my attackers look like militia with brown uniform (woven tunic). Having an attacker with heaviest armor can let me see the difference with&without armor, so I might convince myself to put on some armor for all attackers one day.

    >> I actually thought of switching all my Hedge Knight “workhorses” into Swordmasters.
    I’ve already done the opposite, in order to squeeze more DPS out of melee brothers.

    >> What do you think?

    I think it makes thing easier and enable better decision making by SIMPLY compare the difference.

    DIFFERENCE between Hedge Knight & Swordmaster (you can ignore the hp and resolve difference because they have minimal impact)
    Hedge Knight ==> +20 max fatigue, +10 initiative, +20 hp
    Swordmaster ==> +10 melee skill, +10 melee def, +5 resolve

    Looking at the difference in value, I think you more or less have an answer in your heart.

    >> For them, I think Brawny is still better.
    If you agree Battle Flow is better for offense, Brawny can only prevail over Battle Flow with its higher initiative. Higher initiative should help in defense as you can act before situation get worse.

    >> If I go with Battle Flow instead of Brawny on Swordmaster tank/hybrids, then my Initiative will be soooo low…

    Will this matter though? I will have two Nimble, tarpit Swordmasters in pajamas (not quite lingerie), two archers, all units that can act quickly.

    1) Higher offense with delayed action
    2) faster action with lower offense

    Which do you prefer?

    In my case it is faster action with higher offense. Just a little breezy though… achoo!

    For simplicity purpose, I think it’s better if we exclude ideas such “offense is best defense”, “you don’t have to defend if enemy is dead” in our current discussion. Otherwise we would involve advanced discussions such as “Offense v.s Defense”, “Perfect ratio between Offense & Defense”.

    We will simply look at things in terms of your preferred style or your preferred ratio between offense and defense.


    >> Saito: second image
    LOL. I laughed when I looked at so many lost souls.

    Where did you gaiz find the Hell’s gate? I would like to try the terror myself. I’ve never gotten such mission before.

    Holy: taking a perk only to be able to fight a single enemy type shows how otherwise useless this perk is.
    Invictus: So if a Perk completely makes one of those types a walkover, it’s hardly useless.

    Assuming we decided to choose defense perk branch as main/secondary branch, spending a tier two perk point just to handle one type of troublesome enemy (to me it’s troublesome, or deadly when mishandled)……. is a painful way to spend tier two perk points.

    Even if devs enable lost soul to have triple or quadruple effect, it is still painful because the precious tier two perk point spent HAS NO FRIGGIN USE when I’m not fighting these bit- beaches. So even if it’s logical or mathematically rewarding, my sentiments are unhappy!!! щ(ºДºщ)

    Lost Soul has a ranged attack (a howling/screaming), has anyone dodged it before (without Fortified Mind)?

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #5007

    >> But then maybe this is an unfair test for archers, since Orcs come straight forward and are heavily armored and tough to kill.
    No test is unfair for any roles, unless that role has been given privilege to skip certain battles.
    It’s only unfair if you evaluate a role based on one kind of test.

    Invictus: Still, I can’t find a better enemy to test comparative DPS.
    Saito: I don’t think you’ll ever get close to melee dps guys, but they serve a different role. Late game mass archers can tear up most enemy formations pretty effectively.

    Different role, yes. Tear up enemy formation, no.

    LOL. Have you ever seen enemy using special formations or regrouping?

    Yes, orc warrior can tear up player’s formation. LOL I can understand your desire to get revenge on orcs for tearing up your formation. But you can’t tear up enemy’s formation because they have none. They will either advance or hold ground (hit & run). But I guess you already knew these so it’s partially joke.


    I’ve said this before in this thread, but I’ll said it again in case someone (e.g. Invictus) want to find out about this.

    1) melee weapon has noticeably higher damage per fatigue cost, noticeably higher damage per ammo (usability of weapon). So melee weapon is meant to be the best way to kill enemy.

    2) Regardless how high the melee damage is, it might not able to replace Ranged damage, DUE TO THEIR RANGE DIFFERENCE.

    3) Not sure if intentional, there are fragile enemy units with special effects (e.g. Necromancer, Lost Souls, Archers). Ranged weapon is best used against them.

    4) Ranged support. Did you encounter situations where a brother failed to end an enemy’s life due to poor luck or miscalculation? Ranged weapon has wider coverage and is handy against fragile or weaken enemies, so it can handle this quite well. Oh skeletons please go to hell.

    5) Terrain advantage(when God of Terrain favors you). E.g. long cliffs that force enemy to detour while you shower them with arrows. This factor is rather minor and unreliable because you have no control over it. Also useless if enemy has necromancer that forces you to go offensive instead of defensive.

    in reply to: Utility Skill Tree Discussion #5006

    >> Of course, all your troops are wearing lingerie and brandishing huge sticks that require two hands to move, so I see how you feel this Perk is not worth a second look.
    You surprised me with your circumspective observation.

    >> Strongly disagree. Is likely a better option than the other Fatigue countering Perks if you are a heavy armor tank (they won’t do well with Battle Flow since they won’t kill often enough, and Weapon Master doesn’t give them extra hits without Perfect Focus).

    Here is the situation of my brother.

    Closed mail coif + heraldic mail + greatsword = remaining max fatigue 103

    103 – 42 (focus cost 40 + take one step forward 2) = 61 = 2h hits x4

    Benefit of Battle Flow (assume we can kill an enemy on 4th hit) = 60×0.33 = -20 current fatigue

    Benefit of Brawny = [closed mail coif -2 max fatigue penalty] + [heraldic mail -21 max fatigue penalty] = -23 max fatigue penalty

    You can kill orc young in merely 2 hits, making Battle Flow provide higher benefit than the previous calculation. Also, the calculation doesn’t include the 5th hit enabled by Battle Flow at all.

    If you use Full Force + Heraldic mail, you can kill orc young in only 1 hit, making Battle Flow provide even higher benefit than Brawny.


    >> Even high morale can’t protect you against 18 Lost Souls yelling at you in a row.
    Best joke of the day. I laughed again when I imagine about the scene (ノ>▽<。)ノ Must be really disastrous. You’re not exaggerating right?
    18 lost souls can be troublesome. You might not able to take out all of them in first round due to initial distance.

    Thank god it wasn’t me.

    >> By the way, aren’t ranged weapons limited to 5% against the Lost Souls?
    You sure? I remember my crossbow kill one lost soul within 3 hits. If remember correctly, the hit chance is about 23%.

    >> Anyways, as I explained, it’s perfectly possible using the numbers you guys gave.

    But I wish you gaiz can stop talking about theoretically possible but practically near impossible stuff.
    Asking someone to get a Hedge Knight with 55 initial melee with Dexterous is nothing but a punish game.


    Jaffai: Max Fatigue (With billhook) = 105(Perfect roll)+50(levels)+20(Background)+15(Strong)= 190-14 = 176
    That is 9 attacks with billhook and perfect focus without taking any other perk in factor.

    73: But those numbers are not likely even possible in practice!

    9 consecutive 2h hits are slightly deceptive because it requires a minimum of 189 max fatigue. (189 -40 focus cost -14 billhook penalty)/15 fatigue per 2h hit = 9
    You might die in front of monitor before you get a Wildman with 104 initial stamina and Strong trait. When perform 9 hits consecutively, your brother can’t take even one step forward due to insufficient fatigue. This is relevant if his nearest target is at range 3 (as a Perfect Focus user, I can tell you this will happen very frequently for various reasons).

    HOWEVER, what really matter is 10 extra max fatigue from Wildman gives a lot of value to DPS build if you have Battle Flow. It can push your non-stop attacking abilities to a higher level.

    >> I think I am fairly sure, but I am only a man, and thus always fallible. But I don’t think I ever even recall this guy having less than ninety five percent chance.

    Edit: He’s a sword user: A Swordmaster Riposte bot. So perhaps that explains it?

    Well I’m not sure about the calculation of hit chance. It looks like simple addition/reduction and I never have trouble to hit/kill enemy with melee, so I didn’t pay real attention to it.

    Edit: Swords’ normal attacks increases hit chance by 10%. So perhaps that explains it?

    >> Yes, I see that Wildman are better in pure DPS terms. But I prefer a more balanced build; in particular, those 10 Melee Defense means a big deal for me, as my melee DPSers are wearing only Lamellar Harness and using two handers.
    I think 10 melee def means big deal for everyone. If it’s hard for your brothers to die, your enemy will die instead.

    >> By the way, I don’t understand all the fuss about Lost Souls.
    I don’t understand how they work too. But I’ve seen them made my 80 resolve steady brother fled with one howling. Ever since that, I kill them as soon as possible. Fleeing is hell when you wear woven tunic.

    >> In attachment more math, I know how much devs like it.
    Lol. How did you find out that devs like math?

    >> excel screenshot
    The equation shown at the top is too long and complicated for me O|¯|_
    But whole thing is quite tidy, it inspires and motivates me to do my own.

    >> I’ve seen 69 (LOL) on a Hedge Knight, I believe. I guess 80 is possible on a Swordmaster.
    If max initial melee skill is 55, swordmaster increases melee by 20, you shouldn’t get 80 right?

    >> Screenshot or it didnt happen :D.
    Invictus, show Jaffai the dumb what is photo editing.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 129 total)