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  • in reply to: Observations on combat #4799
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    >> Roll to determine which enemy will get an attack of opportunity (in case there are more than 1).
    In our game, multiple enemies can use ZoC free attack on a same brother simultaneously. Actually I’ve been wondering if a rework should be done for this. Can you imagine 3 enemies slashing at a brother simultaneously to stop him from escaping? Unless the enemies use stabs and pierces, otherwise it has a chance for their weapons to clash or they might hit their own men. Realistically, the enemies would hesitate about the timing of attacking. In a badminton double match participated by rookies, it is incredibly hard to return the shuttlecock that falls between allies because they’re hesitating about who and when to return it, or they will clash and fail.

    Professional enemies might have good teamwork, but this might not work for unexpected and sudden movement such as fleeing of target. The enemies might not even have the time to shout “I’ll do it!” the moment he sees a brother begins to turn his back.

    Still, it’s quite fun to keep things the way it is.

    in reply to: Observations on combat #4795
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    >> Why you can’t damage shield without aiming directly for it? I mean, you can hit body or head, but never shield.
    If you can hit body, head and shield, why can’t you hit enemy’s weapon with yours and break his weapon, or disarm him? Perhaps, this game treats the shield like weapon, partially. So you can’t hit it with usual methods.

    Also, the current game system treats armor and health in a similar way, but it treats shield’s hitpoints in an entirely different way. The prove is all weapon can deal dmg to both armor and health, but only specific weapons can deal dmg to shield.

    I think the current system is quite nice(certain game balance is stunning, I can’t stop wondering how they did it), but the shield is little immortal though. Your weapon can break, your armor can be penetrated, your arrows will finish, but your shield is always reliable buddy. This might be fixed if we can increase enemy’s chance to use shield breaking skills just a little bit higher.

    >> What are my chances of escaping? Who’s going to get an attack of opportunity? I often let my brother stay where they are stuck, because I don’t feel like risking disengagement is worth it.
    You mean moving a brother away from an enemy standing next to him? The tile next to an enemy is known as ZoC(Zone of Control), moving away from a ZoC tile will enable enemy to attack you without using AP. Does this build fatigue for enemy? I need someone to tell me because I never pay attention to it.

    Moving away from ZoC is usually bad idea. But it happens simply because your brother’s morale is too low, or it’s fatal for him to stay in current tile.

    It’s nice if ZoC UI has something like this:
        chance to leave ZoC without taking a hit ==> 55%
        chance to leave ZoC by taking 1 hit ==> 24% (42~49 dmg)
        chance to leave ZoC by taking 2 hits ==> 11% (84~98 dmg)

        Do you wish to leave ZoC?
             [No I rather die as warrior]           >> [Yes I’m coward] <<

    * all probability is made up because I’m too lazy

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #4783
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    Before I begin to discuss ranged brothers, I drop two images here to convince you that melee brothers are not merely shields for range brothers.

    In second image, a melee brother can deal 1000 dmg per round. So it’s time for you to rely more on melee brothers, this will also help you understand the role of range brothers better.
    >> The AI is subject to same rules as a player. If you take quivers from the ground or loot them after battle, you should see numbers diminished. I do. I never saw enemy archer to run out of ammo, because I never let them live long enough to spend it all on my brothers.
    If I remember correctly, an enemy archer has fired more than 40 arrows. Also, all enemy archers have a melee weapon right? So they can’t be carrying 50 arrows to enable them for firing 40+ arrows. This is why I suspect they have unlimited ammo. And it is especially disadvantageous if your team uses defensive styles and defensive perks. You can’t hold out until enemy runs out of arrow, because they have infinite ammo.

    Also, enemy archer spends AP to switch weapons. Thus they should have no Quick Hands. But I’ve never seen them switching the empty quivers. Another reason to suspect about the infinite ammo.

    >> Firing a crossbow takes only 2 AP, so you can fire and move [away]. You’ll have to sacrifice next turn to reload, but you’ll be able to fire instantly and at that point you should be in safer spot than where you begun.
    There’s no problem if users are players as we know how to plan our moves. But I think it will be less efficient for ranged enemy to use this, as their AI rule dictates them to keep a specific distance from us. In conjunction with high reload AP (7 AP), AI archer might have less mobility/offense if they use crossbow this way. Also, if they move to a tile with height difference (3AP), they can’t reload this round. I doubt AI archer can keep all these stuff in mind.
    >>> Hybrid Brothers (melee+range skill) <<<
    I’m oblivious to how much time I spent in Orc’s Fitness Center. But I think I deserved a lifetime membership card. One day, I finally managed to level up my hybrid brothers to lv11. All the pain and hardship to accumulate 9500 exp. You might I think I’m exaggerating a little or something, but I tell you what………… IT’S OVER 9000!!!! щ(ºДºщ) MY EXP!!!! щ(ºДºщ)

    Ughh…. look at my ugly banner. I really wish devs would allow us to change our group name and banner. If I know I would spent this much time in this experimental gameplay, I would have spend some time to choose the name and banner, rather than just going with default ones. I’m glad the new large patch might wipe out all old & incompatible saves so I have an excuse to start new game in future.

    Well, it’s almost 1 year anniversary for my merc band! So I decided to challenge a challenging enemy. But I was too full of myself….. THEN TRAGEDY HAPPENED.

    I was unable to kill the last enemy at end of 2nd round….. WHYYYYY!!!????? O|¯|_ Why does this happen on my 1 year anniversary commemoration battle?

    Well, at least 500 exp in 2.1 rounds is something memorable for my 1 year anniversary commemoration battle.
    Incidentally, I call my hybrid brothers “Avengers”, as vengeance doesn’t require care or protection for personal safety.

    Hybrid brothers have most flexibility in their offense, as they can choose between melee and range attacks. Unlike ranged or melee brothers, there’s nothing that limits hybrid brother from delivering death to an enemy. This is especially deadly against enemy units with special effect, which are powerful but fragile. For example, ghost & necromancer. Your crossbow can kill necromancer in one hit.

    Not sure if I’m dreaming, Not long ago, ghost used AoE(area of effect) attack like wail or scream. And my brother with 80 resolve is fleeing instantly, though his morale should be steady or confident. Range weapon is a good idea for these kinds of troublesome enemies as you can take them out from a distance. Hybrid brothers should have less ammo as they carry inventory of both range and melee brothers. So all ammo of hybrid brothers should be spent on special enemies, or range enemies.

    I would say ranged brothers are Defensive Archers, while hybrid brothers are Offensive Archers. Ranged brothers have to rely on melee brothers to tank the enemy, or wait for enemy to come. Also, ranged brother is always at the rear. Therefore, ranged brothers’ attack range is more limited. With prowess to combat melee enemies, hybrid brothers are the frontiers in battlefield. This enables them to shoot an arrow at the horizon.

    If offense capability ranks from F to SS, I would say my team is somewhere around rank S. Most of my brothers are with summer wear, so it’s not surprising. But it’s a little tiring to play with this team setup, as you always need to think and calculate your steps. It’s time for me to put on some armor to see if things will get easier, at the expense of prolonged battle.

    Anyone else find the strength indicator against enemy on world map is not so accurate? It might label weaker enemy as strong and vice versa. Yes I know the strength of enemy is heavily affected by the weakness of your team setup, but I still find the strength indicator less reliable.

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #4769
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    >> What about skeleton crossbowmen?
    I’ve been wondering why no ranged enemy has crossbow. Maybe because it would be too deadly due to its high accuracy and armor damage? Also, due to high AP cost for reloading crossbow, it is harder for ranged enemy to “hit and run”. When you approach enemy archer as you advance to engage melee enemy, the enemy archer will usually fall back several steps so you can’t catch him.

    >> So far only skeleton archers can be trouble if they are well protected (although crossbows deal nice damage to them)

    Are you sure crossbow can deal nice damage to skeleton archer? (⊙_☉) Why does my memory say different things? If I recall correctly, the last time I fired a projectile against skeleton, I was stunned for 3 seconds then trying to measure enemy’s missing hp with ruler. Then I stopped and let out of sigh. “Let it go~~~ Let it go~~~~~”   ヾ( ๑´д`๑)ツ

    >> I think the most advantageous is taking defensive position and letting – or forcing – enemy to come to you. Because archers.

    >> As I told you already the problem with archers is with AI. They are always on attacking side even if they have more archers than you and they are sitting on treasure you want to take.

    Yes the core subject is about waiting for enemies on high ground.


    What’s the most important thing in waiting? High player intelligence? High artificial intelligence? Or…… infinite artificial patience?

    If AI archers can actually wait, our ranged brothers can never wait for enemy because they will never come.

    While this can be less fun to some players, it also greatly weakens the ability of our ranged brothers, though they can go offensive against enemy archer on high ground.

    Also, did you realize enemy archers have infinite ammo? (if I remember correctly)

    >> Im repeating myself but I think you missed my point.
    Lol, same here. I felt like I’ve typed the same sentence 3 times but somehow you managed to miss it within wall of text. But no big deal though.

    in reply to: More Mid-battle Statistics #4760
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    >> If I didn’t explain it clearly enough or I made a mistake in this wall of text please let me know.

    I think it’s pretty clear, especially in this sentence.

    “Am I playing poorly or am I just getting unlucky right now?” and these stats actually answer that question.

    This really add the flavors especially when you have contemplated for 3 hours in a very tough battle, you were very proud and confident that your master plan would bring you victory yet the result was complete defeat. Being defeated after so much effort is really sad, but at least now you know whether you’re the narcissist or the cursed.

    I didn’t say I enjoyed playing Battle for Wesnoth, right? Okay, then everything I’ve said should have more objectivity.

    Regarding statistics, I would like see the performance statistics for individual brothers. For example, I wanna know the average damage dealt by a brother in last 10 battles. So I can see how is everyone doing.

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #4758
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    >> Sorry if I didnt find your jokes funny, maybe I have bad sense of humour not laughing when someone calling me stupid.
    Usually…. I never forgive anyone who says my jokes are not funny (though they actually meant for illustration purpose, rather than entertainment).

    Well, I’m okay with this since you’ve apolo- wait, that’s not the main point. There is something really strange about this….


    Who’s lying? (・∧‐)ゞ

    You or my control+F search function? He says he can’t find the term stupid. Lying is no joking matter. We need to clear this up immediately.

    Wait, the subtle difference between lying and joking…. nvm.

    >> If it was 1on1 and both sides are exactly same. I guess its a stale mate.

    So what happens in this stalemate? Wait forever, or leave the battle?

    We need clever AI to give extra challenge/fun/trouble to players, right? In this scenario, what is the most advantageous/clever action for you if the AI? Assuming both sides are sitting on treasures with equal value.

    >> Yes I think you are very very special guy Manaseed. /joke
    。゚(゚ノД`゚)゚。 I was so happy until………. I saw the final word.

    in reply to: Medallions? #4756
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    Everytime you fight against 40+ enemies in a battle, it has 0.002% chance to drop an accessory.

    Okay. I bluffed. It should be accessory slot for something like magical pendant, which is yet to be implemented.

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #4747
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    Do you gaiz think this bush is tall enough to block the sight completely, when your height is +1?

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #4746
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    >> Meatshields = raw recruits. Not all melee brothers. Raw recruits are expendable, because they don’t have perks and upgraded stats that my veteran brothers possess.
    Not sure if it’s just me. The idea of “expendable recruit” never come across my mind. I only choose the recruit that is likely to become best of the best, until they got bested or replaced by even better recruit.

    >> And I said problem lies elsewhere than the ammo count. I find javelin useful as it can complement a melee brother’s capabilities. Provided he has enough stamina left to fight after throwing them. It lets you attack on the move.

    Yes I definitely saw you mentioned that. But there might be certain perks which allow you to have more stamina. (so I didn’t say anything about that)
    Wouldn’t a crossbow be a better alternative to complement a melee brother’s capability, as it’s more deadly in most situations? Unless your focus is in raising the shield.

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #4744
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    >> Do not underestimate the ability to fire twice per turn. Also do not underestimate the power of a crossbow.
    You gotta be kidding me, underestimate what? Crossbow is the backbone of ranged brothers. It’s even cooler if you manage to attack with Close Combat Archer perk (though I find it difficult). Fire twice per round(you mean round, right?) is so deadly, how would someone underestimate it? Who doesn’t wanna fire several times in a round?

    >> Additionaly, I position my archers in a way to make it very hard to reach them

    Please share your secret of success. My archers have same AP as melee enemies, so I can only delay their arrival as long as possible.

    >> I don’t let myself to be surrounded.
    Like how? When you begin the battle with enemies coming from all directions, you breakthrough against one direction so you won’t get surrounded?

    >>Your point is…? Because what you’ve said is not even an argument.
    I think you confuse meatshields (raw recruits) with someone else, because meatshields miss more often than they hit (very low base stats), so they are incapable of reaching a vast amount of damage in 3 rounds. Besides, bandits? I fight Orcs. Heavily armored too. Led by a Warboss. At that point bandits are nothing, so it doesn’t really impress me.

    Seriously? Seriously serious? Meatshields, I thought that’s the way you address melee brothers. You actually use melee brothers as pure meatshield!!? And you use them as expendables, just like provisions and medicines!!?

    You need someone to keep the enemy busy so your archers can keep firing, right? So you should keep your meatshields alive, and turn them into super meat- I mean, guardians. The stronger your guardians, the longer your archers can fire, so it aids your purpose.

    >> If anything I’d say people are discouraged from leveling up archers, because they think chances to hit are too low and can hit their own guys

    I think people are discouraged because ranged weapons deal noticeably lower damage than melee weapons, in terms of:
    1) damage/fatigue cost ==> crossbow is 2x (50/25) while greatsword is 8x (118/15)
    2) damage/ammo ==> crossbow provides 500 total dmg for each inventory slot (50 x 10 bolts)
    ==> greatsword provides 826 total dmg for each inventory slot (118 x 7 times before broken)
    The best part is, durability of melee weapon is not reduced when being used against body without armor
    The worst part is, unlike melee weapon, range weapon still consumes ammo when you miss the target
    3) the synergy with certain perk ==> I won’t tell what is this so you can explore the fun of the game yourself

    [*all calculations are simplified for illustration purpose]

    Well, it’s not that easy to hit your own guy (this is my subjective view, but I strongly believe this so I didn’t record the statistics) if you only have one ally around the target. I always fire if that ally has armor on him, otherwise I don’t have guts to fire even the hit chance is 90%.

    >> However, I wouldn’t go as far as to say that javelins can replace bows or crossbows.
    My tummy…. it hurts *still laughing*. When I said I recommend you to compare a crossbow and javelin, I don’t mean to compliment javelin. I was actually asking you to compare the most valuable ranged weapon and the worst ranged weapon.

    >> My purpose wasnt to insult you in anyway. When I was using “you”, I didnt mean you as Manaseed but like “us”. So there is no reason to be offended.
    O|¯|_ He doesn’t understand the joke.

    O|¯|_ He thinks I’m angry with him.

    O|¯|_ And he simply mix me up with everyone else. I would rather him to say I’m special.

    >> Im not saying it would be nice to have AI calculating every possible move and be almost imposible to beat but I wish it gave more challenge to player and it wouldnt be so easy to learn its patterns.
    I wish not every enemy group uses the same set of AI. It would be nice if there some coward bandits, clever bandits and violent bandits.

    >> But in theory it might be bad idea to script AI to be too good with ranged men. It could be frustrating to some people to play the game anymore.
    >> AIs archer is badly positioned. If player is on other side just take high ground again and its easy win again.

    Let’s simplify the example to 1 archer v.s. 1 archer. What should a clever ranged enemy do when I station my archer on high grounds? Should he come or should he wait? If he’s waiting, how long should he wait?

    in reply to: The Berserker perk #4738
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    On my side, Berserker trait has a small chance to stop working at first round. I shouldn’t have made mistake about this as I observed it several times. I started my game after latest patch, I don’t have Killing Frenzy, I picked Perfect Focus instead. Not sure if these information help though.

    in reply to: The Short Trait #4733
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    >> I’m pretty tall and I’ve never experienced or seen others experience difficulties like that. You just use your waist and exert a lot more power that way. Balancing and posture are only an issue when you’re still in your growth spurt and not used to your new height yet.

    Not sure if it’s just me. When I bent about 90 degrees (that’s what most people do when reloading crossbow), I feel like I can’t exert full force to pull something like crossbow string because I spend some strength on controlling my balance (center of mass) as I lean forward a lot. I think I can reload crossbow(pull string) faster if I sit on chair, rather than bending down like that to reload it, then stand up again. I can probably exert full force at max speed if I sit on a chair. So if a person can bend less to reload crossbow, he can use more force at faster speed due to less clumsiness and have more appropriate distance for his arms(and waist) to exert force.

    Still, everything I said is imaginary or not solid because I’ve never reload a crossbow (I’m just imagining what would happen if I pull something like that size with that posture). Not to mention about the subjectively or habit for different people. Also, I have no idea how short is a “short” brother.

    But that’s all chit chat. Now let’s talk about some important stuff.

    >> The picture is kind of small, but seems to me like he’s not using his hips properly for leverage.


    I dunno how to say this, man.

    I-think…. Errr… maybe you shouldn’t stare so hard at other’s hips. It’s really scary, especially when you’re pretty tall.

    in reply to: The Short Trait #4730
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    >> That’s where the power comes into play, which you exert more of if you’re taller. Not sure what you mean by shorter people having better posture and balance?
    I’ve never compared a tall and short person reloading a crossbow before (neither have I tried reloading a crossbow before), so this is pure imaginary result from what I’ve experienced in using relatively shorter/smaller tools.

    Imagine a very tall person bending down just to reload a relatively short/tiny crossbow. Provided he’s not more agile or having better sense of balance than most people, he would take longer time because he has to bend more than other people. He will also take slightly more time to balance his stance/posture when reloading.

    Let’s assume this person has average height. Looking at the angle he bent his waist, I think it easier for him to exert more force if he’s slightly shorter.

    in reply to: Real Value of Ranged Brothers #4728
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    >> Advantage comes with numbers and quality. If enemy has more men with bows than you, you have to try to engage them in melee as fast as possible

    Mana: M-Mr. Tactician, what should we do! *panic* T-There is one enemy in front of us!!!
    Jaffai: Please call me Jaffai. The lone enemy has a bow with him, but we have 12 men with us. So we should rush the enemy.

    *The next day*

    Mana: M-M-Mr. Tactician, w-what should we do! *panic* T-There are 20 enemies in front of us!!!
    Jaffai: Ahem, Jaffai. The enemies have more men with bows than us, so we should engage them in melee as fast as possible.
    Mana: So we just rush the enemy no matter what happens!!? щ(ºДºщ)

    >> I know how to use them in the way that you cannot catch them. I would shoot you once and retreat to higher ground behind my melee.
    You can actively fall back to high grounds and let archers fire behind melee brothers. But can you imagine AI doing the same thing? Okay, if both you and AI are waiting for each other to come. Who do you think is going to win this war of patience?


    >> If you go into a tough fight without the best equipment you can field, you’ll lose brothers.

    In tough fights where enemy has large numbers, you might have difficulty to support your brothers once the melee confrontation has started. This is especially tough for frontline brothers as they are facing current enemies, ranged attacks, and more enemies to come. They probably need to tough it out until an amount of enemies have died. So heavy armor is the easy and good way to keep them alive.

    >> I also use brothers as “holding” troops sometimes. By that I mean, I tie down 2-3 enemies with one brother, who just sits there shieldwalling every turn. With good melee defense, a shield, and heavy armor, he can last a long time while other brothers focus down other creatures, then come and smash the held troops at once.
    At early stage this tactic is a saver. Especially when your group has lower strength and numbers. Now I have sufficient firepower so I rarely use this anymore………………           O|¯|_ until something goes wrong again.


    Also, is it a silly or troublesome idea to switch armor according to scout report? (when engaging bases or enemies that doesn’t pursue you)

    in reply to: The Short Trait #4727
    Avatar photoManaSeed

    A taller man might have more strength to draw the bow than a significantly shorter man, provided the latter is not especially muscular. Well, I can’t see how height would affect power of crossbow. Also, I don’t think taller man can reload the crossbow slightly faster, because reloading crossbow involves movement of entire body, so a minor difference in strength might not be an issue. In addition, you need to bend to reload the crossbow, I think it is easier for short people to reload the crossbow, they should have slightly better posture and balance.

    Ahem, back to the topic. Yes I think the trait should only affect melee weapons.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 129 total)